ASHP and AC planning permission

matt_drummer

Harry1986 said:

matt_drummer said:

QrizB said:

I think this is related to the terms of the £5k heat pump grant.

Under those terms, the newly+installed heat pump has to replace the existing heating system.

If you've got an AC system being installed, and you don't want Octopus to decommission it as part of their heat pump installation, you won't qualify for the grant.

Are you expecting to receive the grant towards the cost of the heat pump? Have you discussed whether you could pay an extra £5k and have the work go ahead despite the AC system?

You may right.

The OP said that the surveyor took his air conditioning system into account when deciding on the size of the heat pump.

The OP hasn't answered how it was included but I was expecting them to say that  the air to air has somehow been included in the heat loss calculation and was going to provide part of the heating demand.

I would guess the new air to air is not the existing heating system.

I have an install coming up with Octopus and I can have an air conditioning system installed at the same time as their ASHP is fitted. 

All you need is planning permission.

The OP doesn't have planning permission.

I think the problem is as simple as having made changes to the house since the survey, the OP has started installing another heat pump that wasn't there when the house was surveyed.

Yes, all i need is planning permission and have already applied for.
Issue is i have applied for the AC commisioning on property.
All i have is internal units hung on wall nothing else.
AC outdoor unit is not connected to mains or to the indoor units.
Octopus making a fuss regarding not to install their system which will replace my boiler and more focusing on the AC side which is none of their concern.
If they did the work and week after i installed AC it wouldnt matter to them what i do on my property.
All they not getting is that i am allowed to have their ASHP under permitted development rights and AC will be installed with planning permission

Once you have two heat pumps installed you need planning permission for both, not just the additional one.

Permitted development only applies for one heat pump that is not used for cooling.

Your planning application needs to be for both heat pumps.


You still haven't answered how your air conditioning was taken into account in determining the size of your Octopus heat pump.

That may be the clue to the answer.

The BUS and MCS have to be complied with in full and any installer will seem to be pedantic, the rules they are enforcing are pedantic.

Mstty

This looks more and more like your error than Octopus tbh.

Harry1986

matt_drummer said:

Harry1986 said:

matt_drummer said:

QrizB said:

I think this is related to the terms of the £5k heat pump grant.

Under those terms, the newly+installed heat pump has to replace the existing heating system.

If you've got an AC system being installed, and you don't want Octopus to decommission it as part of their heat pump installation, you won't qualify for the grant.

Are you expecting to receive the grant towards the cost of the heat pump? Have you discussed whether you could pay an extra £5k and have the work go ahead despite the AC system?

You may right.

The OP said that the surveyor took his air conditioning system into account when deciding on the size of the heat pump.

The OP hasn't answered how it was included but I was expecting them to say that  the air to air has somehow been included in the heat loss calculation and was going to provide part of the heating demand.

I would guess the new air to air is not the existing heating system.

I have an install coming up with Octopus and I can have an air conditioning system installed at the same time as their ASHP is fitted. 

All you need is planning permission.

The OP doesn't have planning permission.

I think the problem is as simple as having made changes to the house since the survey, the OP has started installing another heat pump that wasn't there when the house was surveyed.

Yes, all i need is planning permission and have already applied for.
Issue is i have applied for the AC commisioning on property.
All i have is internal units hung on wall nothing else.
AC outdoor unit is not connected to mains or to the indoor units.
Octopus making a fuss regarding not to install their system which will replace my boiler and more focusing on the AC side which is none of their concern.
If they did the work and week after i installed AC it wouldnt matter to them what i do on my property.
All they not getting is that i am allowed to have their ASHP under permitted development rights and AC will be installed with planning permission

Once you have two heat pumps installed you need planning permission for both, not just the additional one.

Permitted development only applies for one heat pump that is not used for cooling.

Your planning application needs to be for both heat pumps.


You still haven't answered how your air conditioning was taken into account in determining the size of your Octopus heat pump.

That may be the clue to the answer.

The BUS and MCS have to be complied with in full and any installer will seem to be pedantic, the rules they are enforcing are pedantic.

They have asked me about what system I am having and the size of the system in consideration to calculate heat loss and design the small system at a lower temperature at 50C than having a larger system at 60C.
Yes, permitted development applies to one heat pump which is Octopus needs to install. any addition to that i need planning permission. 
I have checked with council and they are happy for me to have ASHP and they will work on AC planning permission but octopus wont accept that 

matt_drummer

Harry1986 said:

Yes, all i need is planning permission and have already applied for.
Issue is i have applied for the AC commisioning on property.
All i have is internal units hung on wall nothing else.
AC outdoor unit is not connected to mains or to the indoor units.
Octopus making a fuss regarding not to install their system which will replace my boiler and more focusing on the AC side which is none of their concern.
If they did the work and week after i installed AC it wouldnt matter to them what i do on my property.
All they not getting is that i am allowed to have their ASHP under permitted development rights and AC will be installed with planning permission

It is their concern though, you cannot have air conditioning without planning permission and if you have planning permission for the air conditioning you will also need planning permission for the Octopus ASHP as it is no longer permitted development (you have more than one heat pump).

What you do after Octopus have commissioned their system is up to you, you are correct, but Octopus and any other MCS installer will have to ensure that all the rules have been complied with at the time of commissioning.

There seems to be something about your plans and the work you have just carried out that breaks the rules.

They will just walk away and not even start the install if everything is not right when they turn up.

To take advantage of their very good price and the BUS grant you just need to do what you are told, there is no point in arguig common sense or quoting what you might do when they are gone, it's irrelevant and will get you nowhere with them.

I know this as much as anybody as I am going through it right now.

matt_drummer

In my case, Octopus have been the only installer I have managed to quote me with any intention of actually proceeding with an install.

I had a few other installers visit, two I have never heard from again, one wanted £25,000 to install, and the other one did a heat loss survey on 12 April 2023 and I am still waiting for the results!

So far, Octopus seem to know what they are doing, I am really confident my install will work but I have spent a lot of time researching and making sure they know what they are doing.

On top of this, it's the best price I am ever going to get, I am saving at least £5,000.

There has been a lot of pain to go through to get here but I am determined to get this done and I hhave just complied with everything they have asked.

It has not been entirely enjoyable, at times it has pushed my patience to the edge, but I have always kept my end goal in sight.

I honestly suggest you do the same if you can.

Harry1986

matt_drummer said:

Harry1986 said:

Yes, all i need is planning permission and have already applied for.
Issue is i have applied for the AC commisioning on property.
All i have is internal units hung on wall nothing else.
AC outdoor unit is not connected to mains or to the indoor units.
Octopus making a fuss regarding not to install their system which will replace my boiler and more focusing on the AC side which is none of their concern.
If they did the work and week after i installed AC it wouldnt matter to them what i do on my property.
All they not getting is that i am allowed to have their ASHP under permitted development rights and AC will be installed with planning permission

It is their concern though, you cannot have air conditioning without planning permission and if you have planning permission for the air conditioning you will also need planning permission for the Octopus ASHP as it is no longer permitted development (you have more than one heat pump).

What you do after Octopus have commissioned their system is up to you, you are correct, but Octopus and any other MCS installer will have to ensure that all the rules have been complied with at the time of commissioning.

There seems to be something about your plans and the work you have just carried out that breaks the rules.

They will just walk away and not even start the install if everything is not right when they turn up.

To take advantage of their very good price and the BUS grant you just need to do what you are told, there is no point in arguig common sense or quoting what you might do when they are gone, it's irrelevant and will get you nowhere with them.

I know this as much as anybody as I am going through it right now.

Noone is arguing with them just trying to understand the concept.
Council them self who looking at the application doesnt have any issues for me to have ASHP with octopus so not sure why octopus is taking it too far.
BUS grant is only available for ASHP and doesn't have any link with AC unit not they provide any grant for that.
in regards to MCS, they need to be installed by an approved by accredited installer which both of them are.
Regarding permitable development rights, it doesnt get voided if i am interested to have AC alongside ASHP if i am going through planning permission.
Regardless of AC and what work has been done or not done, i still have allowed development rights on property to have one ASHP fitted.

I have checked with various people on estate who have gone through same process but different installer than octopus.
its just the octopus is making a fuss and i was looking to see if anyone else have encounter similar issue.

Offering better price doesnt mean i just have to do what been asked, sorry

matt_drummer

Have the council have granted planning permission for your Octopus heat pump?

If they haven't, how do you know they don't have a problem with it when it is installed at your property with another heat pump?

I don't think you have understood the planning requirements, more than one heat pump at a property requires them all to have planning permission.

Once you install more than one, none of them are permitted development. If you don't believe me, talk to your planning officer.


The BUS grant is not for your air conditioning, that is true, but payment of the grant is dependent on all the conditions being met. 

MCS rules will require you to have planning permission for your Octopus heat pump and your air conditioning.

If you don't have planning permission for your Octopus heat pump, you don't comply with the MCS rules and  therefore are not eligible for the BUS grant.

That is why Octopus have an issue with what you have done.


You are arguing though, you don't think they are correct and you want them to change their minds, at least I assume that is the point of this?


If you know better, then great, let us know as it will help lots of people in the future.

What have Octopus told you?  I have found them helpful, just ask your project manager to explain the issue to you in enough detail for you to understand.

Then let us know the answer, we would all like to know.

Other installers interpretation of the rules doesn't make them right and Octopus wrong.

Your installer is Octopus and it is their conditions that you need to comply with.

Do your neighbours have more than one heat pump at their properties?


If your neighbours have had installs carried out without the problems you are facing, why didn't/don't you use the same installer they used?

matt_drummer

Harry1986 said:

Offering better price doesnt mean i just have to do what been asked, sorry

It does if you want Octopus to carry out your installation.

Just get another installer to do it if you don't want to comply with Octopus requests.

Mstty

Octopus is obviously the cheapest install for you.

Take the wall units off the wall and employ an electrician to remove the connection in the fuse box if this is all that is required for Octopus to install your heatpump.

That was the gist of this in the first post right?

matt_drummer

Mstty said:

Octopus is obviously the cheapest install for you.

Take the wall units off the wall and employ an electrician to remove the connection in the fuse box if this is all that is required for Octopus to install your heatpump.

That was the gist of this in the first post right?

Yes, that is all they need to do.