Lifetime Gym Membership

Manxman_in_exile

@ozzw247 -  If you feel strongly enough about this and you have the original T&Cs to back up your argument then you could (threaten to) sue them.  I wonder if they might be able to fall back on the "reasonable grounds" to cancel or terminate term though.

What outcome do you want?  If you sue them you probably aren't going to feel welcome there any more.  Do you want a partial refund and find another gym?  At least you've got two years to think about it.

I think I'd sit down with the managers again and try to negotiate a better deal by pointing out how let down and disappointed you are by their backtracking on what you thought was an honest and genuine lifetime offer.  Ask them, if the original offer was only intended to be for ten years, why didn't it say precisely that rather saying lifetime?

In the final analysis it's up to you what you value most.  (Personally there's no way I'd pay £4k for ten years membership of a gym.  Especially if I'd already paid a lot of money eight(?) years ago to buy what the contrcatual terms clearly said was lifetime - not ten years - membership) 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Manxman_in_exile said:

ozzw247 said:

I have read back through all the terms and conditions and there is nothing referring to the contract length and the possibility of them changing it, just some notes on cancelling or terminating the contract if they feel there are reasonable grounds. I see myself as a 'good user' so feel they will have no issue there....

Isn't this the crux of the matter?

I can imagine the gym arguing that they have valid economic or commercial grounds for cancelling lifetime memberships.  Whether that would satisfy a court as being "reasonable" or not I don't know...

CMA guidance suggests not, I would assume this would come under

(11) A term which has the object or effect of enabling the trader to alter the terms of the contract unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract.

As the gym are attempting to vary the meaning of the term "lifetime".

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450440/Unfair_Terms_Main_Guidance.pdf

5.21 covers this in more detail than it's worth me posting  

ozzw247

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

5.21 covers this in more detail than it's worth me posting  

That seems to pretty much say that 'reasonable grounds' is deemed to be unfair unless agreed by both parties, particularly 5.21.9 regarding the commercial interests of the business.

Suffice to say the original terms do not clarify 'reasonable grounds' anywhere.

user1977

Aylesbury_Duck said:

as you're someone who uses the gym, I suspect you'll last longer than the average person of your age.

Unless the management take steps to try to bump off their lifetime members. Be ready to duck in case any weights fly in your direction...

ozzw247

Manxman_in_exile said:

What outcome do you want?  If you sue them you probably aren't going to feel welcome there any more.  Do you want a partial refund and find another gym?  At least you've got two years to think about it.

In the final analysis it's up to you what you value most.  (Personally there's no way I'd pay £4k for ten years membership of a gym.  Especially if I'd already paid a lot of money eight(?) years ago to buy what the contrcatual terms clearly said was lifetime - not ten years - membership) 

The ideal would be to extend the membership and I am willing to pay a fair amount - say 2-3K maximum - to continue things as they are, The original gamble has come through fine, I have had good use and understand they have running costs.

The idea of gambling by paying £4.5k for 10 years membership which could vanish in a year or two is a non-starter in my mind.

Considering the original investment was done when they needed the cash flow and it was a gamble they would be there long term, I would have expected a better deal for the members that stood by them in dark times.

The suggestion of a 10% discount, £4k payment and a new 'real' 10 year contract, whilst cancelling my last 2 years on my original contract is somewhat insulting.

Another area I have a bad taste with is that the discount is based upon the original 2014 investment, so valuing each of my remaining 2 years (extended owing to Covid to 2015) at £200. The new offer they have made clearly values a years membership at £450, so a discount of £900 should be the minimum, added to this is the loss of all the extras given with the original contract.

Grumpy_chap

ozzw247 said:

Another area I have a bad taste with is that the discount is based upon the original 2014 investment, so valuing each of my remaining 2 years (extended owing to Covid to 2015) at £200. The new offer they have made clearly values a years membership at £450, so a discount of £900 should be the minimum, added to this is the loss of all the extras given with the original contract.

This could be the crux of the matter.
The gym is simply too cheap.

My wife and I go to just about the cheapest gym in our area at £135 per month for joint membership.  So £800 each per year.
Other local gyms are double that (Virgin / David Lloyd).

Rather than complex offers, maybe the gym should just charge every one more and be confident of their market value 

Manxman_in_exile

@ozzw427 -  have you discussed this with the other "life" members who are presumably in the same boat?  What do they think?

If the gym is under the same management/ownership as when you accepted the lifetime membership offer I'd be really hacked off.  I'd feel that the gym was taking the mickey and I also wouldn't trust them from now and on into the future.

It really depends how much value you place on using the gym and how much benefit you get from membership, what alternatives are available if you want to continue using a gym, and how annoyed and let down by them you feel.

(Personally I'd leave* and I'd want a partial refund - based on my age etc - of whatever I originally paid for the life membership.  And, if I were confident that the T&Cs of the original offer were on my side, I'd seriously consider suing them if they didn't pay up).

[Edit: another thing to consider is the possibility that if you do leave then the life members who remain might be able to negotiate a better deal that you regret missing out on.  That's why I suggest you sound out other life members.  You've got two years to think about it.  Also consider that if the gym's survival depends on changing the life membership terms, it might go under if you all rebel...]


*Easy for me to say but it's partly because i've never understood why people join gyms.  I run five times a week between 20 to 25 miles, I do a minimum 20 mile bike ride on Sundays, my wife has a Concept 2 rowing m/c at home that I use a couple of times a week, and we also have a set of weights at home heavy enough for a fit couple in their mid-60s.  But I understand some people value the social benefits of being a member at a gym...

Manxman_in_exile

Sorry for another post but I can't face editing the previous one again!

I'd get togther with the other life members and organise a meeting the the owners/management to talk this through.

If you all bought life membership in good faith based on "life" meaning your lives, then I think the gym is acting in bad faith if they are now moving the goalposts.  But maybe they have to do so in oreder to remain in business, or maybe there's been some miscommunication between you all.

You all need to discuss it with the gym giving you a proper explanation of the situation.

ozzw247

Grumpy_chap said:

ozzw247 said:

Another area I have a bad taste with is that the discount is based upon the original 2014 investment, so valuing each of my remaining 2 years (extended owing to Covid to 2015) at £200. The new offer they have made clearly values a years membership at £450, so a discount of £900 should be the minimum, added to this is the loss of all the extras given with the original contract.

This could be the crux of the matter.
The gym is simply too cheap.

My wife and I go to just about the cheapest gym in our area at £135 per month for joint membership.  So £800 each per year.
Other local gyms are double that (Virgin / David Lloyd).

To be fair the gym charge around £70 per month for the standard monthly ongoing membership and has a £99 per month option which includes a number of specialist classes and personal training sessions. So for a standard monthly membership it is pretty much at the top end of the local area.

Checking out the 2 comparable options in the area they are coming in at around £60 and £75 per month for full access to all facilities.

However, this query revolves around a very long term commitment and a previously (mis-)sold lifetime contract, so a fierce price point would reasonably be expected.

In the last few years they have offered 2 year fixed deals that have hit around the £450 per year mark, so offering the same over 10 years seems to be pricing quite high.

ozzw247

Manxman_in_exile said:

@ozzw427 -  have you discussed this with the other "life" members who are presumably in the same boat?  What do they think?

If the gym is under the same management/ownership as when you accepted the lifetime membership offer I'd be really hacked off.  I'd feel that the gym was taking the mickey and I also wouldn't trust them from now and on into the future.

There were only ever 100 of these memberships ever offered (out of 6000 members), and the only other person I was aware had one moved away a few years ago. So without going somewhat public I have no guide to what others think.

It is the same management and same company

It really depends how much value you place on using the gym and how much benefit you get from membership, what alternatives are available if you want to continue using a gym, and how annoyed and let down by them you feel.

I do value it quite a lot, but now having looked around the local area there are possible other options, I do feel somewhat let down as I feel they could offer more to members like myself who stumped up in darker times.

For the moment I plan to coast out my 2 years, making full use of the extras that cam with the membership - free guest passes, café discounts, weekly trainer session and monthly free spa session - most of which I have never really used.

*Easy for me to say but it's partly because i've never understood why people join gyms.  I run five times a week between 20 to 25 miles, I do a minimum 20 mile bike ride on Sundays, my wife has a Concept 2 rowing m/c at home that I use a couple of times a week, and we also have a set of weights at home heavy enough for a fit couple in their mid-60s.  But I understand some people value the social benefits of being a member at a gym...

I am very envious, If only I had the drive like you do! the social side is a small part of it to me, perhaps there are better ways of getting the odd sauna and Jacuzzi!