How common is fleecehold?

eddddy

garnhamr said:

I would like to know how common it is that councils don't adopt the street and the developers appoint a management company because i want to judge how badly it's going to affect the sale of my house.

Should i knock money off if there's other 3 bed semi's in the area that are as good as mine but don't have that service charge? 
How much? 

I think that's more of a question for your local estate agents.

- they'll know your estate,
- they'll know other houses in the area
- they'll know which houses get most interest
- they'll know how much people offer for different types of houses
- they'll know how much they sell for
- they'll know the types of questions buyers ask
- and how much buyers worry about service charges, etc.

And if they've sold houses on your estate before, they'll probably know if service charges came up as an issue during the conveyancing.


And there are so many things that impact the desirability and price of 3 bed semis, that I doubt you'll be able to pin down the impact of a service charge  by itself.

TBG01

garnhamr said:

eddddy said:

garnhamr said:

Can anyone shed light on how many homes in England are fleecehold?

'Fleecehold' is a bit of a loose, subjective term. What's behind your question?

For example, are you interested in the number of

• Freehold houses subject to an estate rentcharge?
• Freehold houses subject to an estate rentcharge - which do not have the remedies in s121 of the Law Property Act excluded?
• Freehold houses subject to an estate rentcharge - which is currently over a a certain amount per year?
• Freehold houses subject to an estate rentcharge - with roads, pavements, street lighting, communal play areas which are unadopted?

Or a combination of the above?
Or something else?

Having said that, even if you clarify what you mean, it will probably be impossible to find any meaningful data.


(Bear in mind that there may be some freehold houses with estate rentcharges, which are completely inoffensive. e.g  there is nothing or almost nothing to pay most years, and remedies in s121 of the Law Property Act are excluded.)

I would like to know how common it is that councils don't adopt the street and the developers appoint a management company because i want to judge how badly it's going to affect the sale of my house.
Should i knock money off if there's other 3 bed semi's in the area that are as good as mine but don't have that service charge? 
How much? 
I've been quite upset over it because i wasn't told about it when i bought the place until the last minute and my mum was dying and i wanted to be there for her. So i didn't pull out of the purchase. So i feel hoodwinked and scammed. But then is £300 a year really a big deal? Not really i guess, depends on the buyer.

Yes I'm sympathetic over your Mum, but you were made aware of things and still chose to continue, so how is that being "hoodwinked and scammed".

Postik

MultiFuelBurner said:

To be honest fleecehold when we see service charges mentioned on Rightmove we skim past.

I've never seen a property where they advertise the fact that it's fleecehold on Rightmove.  I've even looked at properties where the estate agent has said there is no estate management charge, just for me to go away and investigate and find out that there is.

Around here there are very few new build estates that don't have these charges.  I managed to buy a house on one that doesn't but it's very rare now.  I was instantly suspicious when the previous owner said there was no estate charge but I looked into it and sure enough there wasn't.

hildasmuriel

peter3hg said:

I'm happy paying £250ish a year for the maintenance on the estate I live on as the lesser of two evils.

Roads, pavements, drains/sewers and lightning are all adopted so the charge covers the parks, playgrounds, football pitches and other open spaces.

The local council has closed down a lot of the playgrounds they have responsibility for, so them not being adopted means the playgrounds aren't at risk of closure in the same way.

There is no rentcharge. Instead there is a restriction on the title so the management company can stop a sale until the homeowners account is up to date. The management company is jointly owned by all the homeowners so the maintenance company can be changed if they are too expensive or doing a bad job. It also means any surplus can he paid back to homeowners as it was last year.


Obviously in an ideal world everything would be adopted and maintained properly by the council, but that isn't the current world we live in with the state of local council funding.

Agree with all of this. Ours comes in around £200 a year also and we get refunded any surplus.

BobT36

Postik said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

To be honest fleecehold when we see service charges mentioned on Rightmove we skim past.

I've never seen a property where they advertise the fact that it's fleecehold on Rightmove.  I've even looked at properties where the estate agent has said there is no estate management charge, just for me to go away and investigate and find out that there is.

Around here there are very few new build estates that don't have these charges.  I managed to buy a house on one that doesn't but it's very rare now.  I was instantly suspicious when the previous owner said there was no estate charge but I looked into it and sure enough there wasn't.

Where do you look to find that out? 

It's crazy having to pay the council full price, AND this extra service charge too. Everything in this country wants to rip you off.. 

user1977

BobT36 said:

Postik said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

To be honest fleecehold when we see service charges mentioned on Rightmove we skim past.

I've never seen a property where they advertise the fact that it's fleecehold on Rightmove.  I've even looked at properties where the estate agent has said there is no estate management charge, just for me to go away and investigate and find out that there is.

Around here there are very few new build estates that don't have these charges.  I managed to buy a house on one that doesn't but it's very rare now.  I was instantly suspicious when the previous owner said there was no estate charge but I looked into it and sure enough there wasn't.

It's crazy having to pay the council full price

How much of a discount would you expect? I think some people seem to have fanciful ideas of how high a proportion of their council tax goes towards maintaining the road outside their house...

comeandgo

We pay in the region of £200 a year,  we have a lot of grass and wood areas.  If we left it to the council it may get cut twice a year.  Our grass areas are clean and tidy with cut grass, this must help with selling properties as the whole estate looks good,

Postik

BobT36 said:

Postik said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

To be honest fleecehold when we see service charges mentioned on Rightmove we skim past.

I've never seen a property where they advertise the fact that it's fleecehold on Rightmove.  I've even looked at properties where the estate agent has said there is no estate management charge, just for me to go away and investigate and find out that there is.

Around here there are very few new build estates that don't have these charges.  I managed to buy a house on one that doesn't but it's very rare now.  I was instantly suspicious when the previous owner said there was no estate charge but I looked into it and sure enough there wasn't.

Where do you look to find that out? 

It's crazy having to pay the council full price, AND this extra service charge too. Everything in this country wants to rip you off.. 

First thing you can do is go to the play area on the estate and usually they have a sign up telling you who the management company is.  If it's a private company and not the local council then this is a dead giveaway that there is a service charge.

The other option is to pay £3 on the government land registry website and download the title deed for the property, and this will usually mention it too.

And yes it is a rip off.  I don't believe there should be any "discount" from the council - they should be adopting all of the green spaces as well as the roads.  They shouldn't be creating the green spaces if the council don't want to adopt them.

I've casually researched the topic and there is multiple finger pointing as to who is to blame for this system: the local parish councils who insist on the green spaces (probably because it results in less houses), the city/county council who won't adopt anything other than a tarmac road, the developer who won't put down 5 year's worth of money to maintain the area prior to adoption.  I also heard that if the council buy any of the affordable homes as council housing, they don't/won't agree to the service charge, so it only applies to the private homes.

I don't know who is at fault but it's a crappy system where the extra cost and hassle is lumbered on the homeowner.

Yes - it's our choice if we buy a property with these charges.  However, the charge is normally innocently described by the developer as "a small fee for cutting the grass."  We also have a housing shortage so shouldn't be creating obstacles.

MultiFuelBurner

I've looked at many of the latest developments and those finished in the last few years with houses up for sale locally and I would say 90% mention service charge in their sales blurb/Rightmove.

RelievedSheff

Postik said:

BobT36 said:

Postik said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

To be honest fleecehold when we see service charges mentioned on Rightmove we skim past.

I've never seen a property where they advertise the fact that it's fleecehold on Rightmove.  I've even looked at properties where the estate agent has said there is no estate management charge, just for me to go away and investigate and find out that there is.

Around here there are very few new build estates that don't have these charges.  I managed to buy a house on one that doesn't but it's very rare now.  I was instantly suspicious when the previous owner said there was no estate charge but I looked into it and sure enough there wasn't.

Where do you look to find that out? 

It's crazy having to pay the council full price, AND this extra service charge too. Everything in this country wants to rip you off.. 

First thing you can do is go to the play area on the estate and usually they have a sign up telling you who the management company is.  If it's a private company and not the local council then this is a dead giveaway that there is a service charge.

The other option is to pay £3 on the government land registry website and download the title deed for the property, and this will usually mention it too.

And yes it is a rip off.  I don't believe there should be any "discount" from the council - they should be adopting all of the green spaces as well as the roads.  They shouldn't be creating the green spaces if the council don't want to adopt them.

I've casually researched the topic and there is multiple finger pointing as to who is to blame for this system: the local parish councils who insist on the green spaces (probably because it results in less houses), the city/county council who won't adopt anything other than a tarmac road, the developer who won't put down 5 year's worth of money to maintain the area prior to adoption.  I also heard that if the council buy any of the affordable homes as council housing, they don't/won't agree to the service charge, so it only applies to the private homes.

I don't know who is at fault but it's a crappy system where the extra cost and hassle is lumbered on the homeowner.

Yes - it's our choice if we buy a property with these charges.  However, the charge is normally innocently described by the developer as "a small fee for cutting the grass."  We also have a housing shortage so shouldn't be creating obstacles.

The fault lies squarely with the councils on this one!

The planning departments insist on green spaces and public open space and then refuse to adopt them.

You can not blame the developers for this situation.