Lodge cancellation

sheramber

But what do the  T&C say about the possibility of thermal suite not being available.?

Is there a disclaimer?

tightauldgit

I'm slightly in two minds on this one because it does feel like the spa suite not being available is a meaningful change to what you booked but on the other hand they are saying that you can still get your treatments which is kind of what you paid for. On the third hand I'd be expecting a bit more than a bottle of Prosecco in compo for missing out on the facilities mentioned and on the fourth hand the other posters are probably right that their contract terms will say something like not all facilities may be available on any given day. 

Given that the suite is closed what would your preference be at this stage? Cancel and get a refund? Would you be able to find an alternative? Or what if they offered you more of a goodwill gesture? A bottle of prosecco is probably what? £10? Sounds a bit cheapskatey. Or else accept the offer to change the date and get the whole package you wanted?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

ThumbRemote said:

This is not a cancellation. This is a breach of contract by the provider. 

Yes I did wonder about this.

When we go to a hotel we usually look for one with a swimming pool and if it was closed at the time of our stay I wouldn't be impressed.

I think it may depend upon the reason for the closure, if this maintenance is general then the company ought to have known and informed customers of such at the time of booking (misleading omissions and all that).

If something unexpectedly failed I do wonder if that makes a difference. 

I don't think talk of general disclaimers is relevant, it would likely be an unfair term as it would be too vague. 

freshstart2023

Thanks again. I would rather they allow us to cancel and get a refund as there are other places still available with a spa facility on the same date. I found an online contact form for their head office, completed it yesterday and awaiting a reply. 

I can’t see any disclaimers In their terms about it…

Manxman_in_exile

CardinalWolsey said:

freshstart2023 said:

They said as a gesture if goodwill they would move us to another date when the spa had reopened

we can’t have a refund as their terms and conditions state it’s non refundable if cancelled within 28 days of arrival date 

Move the date more than 28 days into the future, and then cancel, as per their T&Cs.

Is this not a possibility?

freshstart2023

I’m not sure 🤔 

Aylesbury_Duck

What have you got to lose? They're not refunding you now, if they don't refund you when you cancel the new booking you're no worse off BUT they will have breached their cancellation terms this time.

ThumbRemote

Alderbank said:

ThumbRemote said:

This is not a cancellation. This is a breach of contract by the provider. 

How can you possibly say that? Have you seen the T&Cs of the contract?

We are talking about a spa suite with pool, sauna, jacuzzi, steam room etc. There is a lot of technology, a lot to go wrong, a lot to need maintenance and a lot of potential to harm customers.

It would be reasonable to have a contract term saying something like
'We make our best endeavours to keep all facilities available to our guests at all times but for health and safety reasons this might not always be possible. This could be at short notice. When this happens we will be happy to move your booking to another date.'

We just don't know.

Why on earth do you think that would be reasonable? It's clearly an unbalanced contract if the retailer can unilaterally change it but the consumer cannot. 

Yes, of course things can go wrong, and a small amount of modification to the contract can be allowed. But as you say it's an entire spa suite so is a major feature. The retailer have breached the contract. 

The way some people on this board seek to justify appalling behaviour by retailers amazes me. 

tightauldgit

ThumbRemote said:

Alderbank said:

ThumbRemote said:

This is not a cancellation. This is a breach of contract by the provider. 

How can you possibly say that? Have you seen the T&Cs of the contract?

We are talking about a spa suite with pool, sauna, jacuzzi, steam room etc. There is a lot of technology, a lot to go wrong, a lot to need maintenance and a lot of potential to harm customers.

It would be reasonable to have a contract term saying something like
'We make our best endeavours to keep all facilities available to our guests at all times but for health and safety reasons this might not always be possible. This could be at short notice. When this happens we will be happy to move your booking to another date.'

We just don't know.

Why on earth do you think that would be reasonable? It's clearly an unbalanced contract if the retailer can unilaterally change it but the consumer cannot. 

Yes, of course things can go wrong, and a small amount of modification to the contract can be allowed. But as you say it's an entire spa suite so is a major feature. The retailer have breached the contract. 

The way some people on this board seek to justify appalling behaviour by retailers amazes me. 

If the contract says 'some of the facilities may not be available during your stay due to unforeseen circumstances' then neither the retailer not the consumer is changing or breaching the contract if a given facility isn't available. 

I know some users of this site like to read everything in the consumers' favour and believe that businesses can't protect themselves in any way but reality kind of defeats those assertions. When it's standard industry practice then you can be reasonably assured that it if was so obviously wrong that it would have been shown to be unlawful in court by now. 

Suddenly everyone who turns up at a hotel and finds the swimming pool or gym closed is due a full refund. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

tightauldgit said:

ThumbRemote said:

Alderbank said:

ThumbRemote said:

This is not a cancellation. This is a breach of contract by the provider. 

How can you possibly say that? Have you seen the T&Cs of the contract?

We are talking about a spa suite with pool, sauna, jacuzzi, steam room etc. There is a lot of technology, a lot to go wrong, a lot to need maintenance and a lot of potential to harm customers.

It would be reasonable to have a contract term saying something like
'We make our best endeavours to keep all facilities available to our guests at all times but for health and safety reasons this might not always be possible. This could be at short notice. When this happens we will be happy to move your booking to another date.'

We just don't know.

Why on earth do you think that would be reasonable? It's clearly an unbalanced contract if the retailer can unilaterally change it but the consumer cannot. 

Yes, of course things can go wrong, and a small amount of modification to the contract can be allowed. But as you say it's an entire spa suite so is a major feature. The retailer have breached the contract. 

The way some people on this board seek to justify appalling behaviour by retailers amazes me. 

If the contract says 'some of the facilities may not be available during your stay due to unforeseen circumstances' then neither the retailer not the consumer is changing or breaching the contract if a given facility isn't available. 

I know some users of this site like to read everything in the consumers' favour and believe that businesses can't protect themselves in any way but reality kind of defeats those assertions. When it's standard industry practice then you can be reasonably assured that it if was so obviously wrong that it would have been shown to be unlawful in court by now. 

Suddenly everyone who turns up at a hotel and finds the swimming pool or gym closed is due a full refund. 

Sadly it is this kind of thinking that causes a lot of misunderstanding with regards to consumer rights. 

Non-refundable services are largely considered unfair but many service providers, including hotels, offer them.

There are many companies excluding the right of cancellation for mattresses but the lower courts in this country are bound by the CJEU decision on the matter (that they are not excluded).  

The courier insurance thread highlights another example of an entire industry acting in a manner which may well not meet the requirements of the legislation.

It is naïve in the extreme to think that because something happens it is lawful, there are many, many things happening and government bodies are limited in resources, issues that get tackled are those that have a serious impact (or if you were cynical you might say those which allow governments to earn large fines from global corporations). 

Higher courts may make rulings but in many cases few consumers actually stand up for themselves (probably in part because they have this way of thinking and believe what they are told) and large companies would rather pay them to go away rather than risk a higher court ruling against their business practice. 

some of the facilities may not be available during your stay due to unforeseen circumstances

The problem with this is it is too vague. How many is some? What are facilities? The kettle and TV in the room? The pool? The bar? The restaurant? The lift? The concierge? Room cleaning? 

Terms need to be specific in order to be fair, the consumer must be able to understand them and what the consequences of them may be, the example you've given doesn't do this at all. 

I do agree that for a business there will be unexpected events, a pool or spa could be shut due to a power cut for example but then if you hire a taxi and it breaks down at the end of your street would you still pay for the journey to the airport?