Settlement Advice

Marcon

El_Torro said:

There seem to be some very low expectations on this board. Considering that she has 20 years of service then I would say that 1 month for every year is a reasonable settlement, especially given the circumstances. I'd perhaps push that to two years salary. Depending on the company I wouldn't be surprised if she got more. 

I agree with Marcon that letting the employer make the first offer is the way to go.

These kind of settlements differ depending on the company and the industry. If I were in that position I would be shocked to receive a first offer of less than 1 year's salary though. 

The problem is that nobody here does know 'the circumstances'. Without knowing far more about all aspects of the situation, it's unwise to raise false hopes. Long service alone isn't everything, although I entirely agree it is something to be taken into account. 

El_Torro

Marcon said:

El_Torro said:

There seem to be some very low expectations on this board. Considering that she has 20 years of service then I would say that 1 month for every year is a reasonable settlement, especially given the circumstances. I'd perhaps push that to two years salary. Depending on the company I wouldn't be surprised if she got more. 

I agree with Marcon that letting the employer make the first offer is the way to go.

These kind of settlements differ depending on the company and the industry. If I were in that position I would be shocked to receive a first offer of less than 1 year's salary though. 

The problem is that nobody here does know 'the circumstances'. Without knowing far more about all aspects of the situation, it's unwise to raise false hopes. Long service alone isn't everything, although I entirely agree it is something to be taken into account. 

You're right, I have taken the opening post at face value and getting rid of this employee might be a lot easier than the OP thinks. Even if the OP's friend is a great employee with no performance issues (other than not getting on with her manager) it is not that difficult to manage someone out of a business, without going through the expense of throwing money at them in the hope they'll go away. 

Having said that though it's possible that this person is sitting on a gold mine without realising it. There's many people out there who'd love to be in a position to name their price to leave after twenty years of service. The potential settlement shouldn't be underestimated either. 

To give 3 examples to show where I'm coming from:

Some years ago I was at an old employer. I had 4 years of service and was basically going through the disciplinary process to be sacked for gross misconduct. I won't go into the details here but suffice it to say that my employer's case was strong. I was basically told that if I resigned straight away I wouldn't be sacked and I would be paid my 3 months notice period without having to work any of it. I took this "offer", essentially giving me a 3 month settlement after only 4 years of service. We didn't discuss my reference but it can't have been too bad since I got a new job pretty much straight away. 

Over the last few years I have had two colleagues which have been essentially asked to leave the company, two separate occasions. One had 27 years of service, the other 26. In both cases one could argue that they were not fulfilling their roles as well as they should have been. Rather than take them through the disciplinary process my employer offered them 3 years salary to leave, which they both accepted. 


Maybe through the course of my career I have just had lazy employers with money to burn. I don't know. Even so I think the OP's friend's position shouldn't be underestimated. Even if it ends up as wrongful dismissal it's not just the money the company has to pay out (it would be less than 2 years salary, I know), it reflects badly on them too. Whether the company wants to risk looking bad or not I don't know.

Alfrescodave

The employer can be expected to pay for her to receive independent legal advice, and that's where she should be having any discussions - not with ACAS, not on this board, not with her friends, however well meaning.

My son went through a very similar situation and obtained legal advice, which his employer paid for. The legal advisers took full control of the negotiating process and obtained a very generous package for him so I would strongly recommend this route.

Undervalued

Alfrescodave said:

The employer can be expected to pay for her to receive independent legal advice, and that's where she should be having any discussions - not with ACAS, not on this board, not with her friends, however well meaning.

My son went through a very similar situation and obtained legal advice, which his employer paid for. The legal advisers took full control of the negotiating process and obtained a very generous package for him so I would strongly recommend this route.

For a formal settlement agreement to be binding, it is a legal requirement that the employee receives independent legal advice. It is customary (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay a sum to cover the cost of such advice, However, that is normally only sufficient for the legal minimum. Few employers will pay for the employee's solicitor to negotiate against the company to try and secure a better deal. If the employee wants the solicitor to do that the they would normally have to pay that part of the cost themselves!

Alfrescodave

Undervalued said:

Alfrescodave said:

The employer can be expected to pay for her to receive independent legal advice, and that's where she should be having any discussions - not with ACAS, not on this board, not with her friends, however well meaning.

My son went through a very similar situation and obtained legal advice, which his employer paid for. The legal advisers took full control of the negotiating process and obtained a very generous package for him so I would strongly recommend this route.

For a formal settlement agreement to be binding, it is a legal requirement that the employee receives independent legal advice. It is customary (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay a sum to cover the cost of such advice, However, that is normally only sufficient for the legal minimum. Few employers will pay for the employee's solicitor to negotiate against the company to try and secure a better deal. If the employee wants the solicitor to do that the they would normally have to pay that part of the cost themselves!

Well my son must have picked the right legal employment adviser (not a solicitor) as they controlled the whole process and invoiced the employer directly. They successfully negotiated a settlement package equivalent to more than 6 months salary plus other benefits. The employer was not a small business but a large company but with an inefficient HR. 

My point to the OP was to investigate all legal options, there is help out there. 

Undervalued

Alfrescodave said:

Undervalued said:

Alfrescodave said:

The employer can be expected to pay for her to receive independent legal advice, and that's where she should be having any discussions - not with ACAS, not on this board, not with her friends, however well meaning.

My son went through a very similar situation and obtained legal advice, which his employer paid for. The legal advisers took full control of the negotiating process and obtained a very generous package for him so I would strongly recommend this route.

For a formal settlement agreement to be binding, it is a legal requirement that the employee receives independent legal advice. It is customary (although not obligatory) for the employer to pay a sum to cover the cost of such advice, However, that is normally only sufficient for the legal minimum. Few employers will pay for the employee's solicitor to negotiate against the company to try and secure a better deal. If the employee wants the solicitor to do that the they would normally have to pay that part of the cost themselves!

Well my son must have picked the right legal employment adviser (not a solicitor) as they controlled the whole process and invoiced the employer directly. They successfully negotiated a settlement package equivalent to more than 6 months salary plus other benefits. The employer was not a small business but a large company but with an inefficient HR. 

My point to the OP was to investigate all legal options, there is help out there. 

Only a solicitor (with specific insurance in place) or under some circumstances a specially trained trades union rep can "sign off" a formal settlement agreement. It is a specific legal requirement. Maybe your son's "advisor" reached what is called a COT 3 agreement, which in some ways is similar, with his employer. A COT3 is signed via ACAS, who are supposed to be a neutral party, so a solicitor's advice is not mandatory.

If, as occasionally happens, your son's employer offered some other "agreement" then they took a significant chance as it would not be binding in law and your son could potentially make further claims (obviously assuming he had valid grounds).

goater78

They’ve offered 9 months which she is probably going to accept. She’s just going through the legalities now. 

El_Torro

goater78 said:

They’ve offered 9 months which she is probably going to accept. She’s just going through the legalities now. 

I would push for more. This can backfire though of course.

Either way the circumstances around her leaving the company are not nice. Hopefully she finds a new job relatively quickly. At least she also has something to show for her many years of service.

miss_kau

Alfrescodave said:

My son went through a very similar situation and obtained legal advice, which his employer paid for. The legal advisers took full control of the negotiating process and obtained a very generous package for him so I would strongly recommend this route.

Why/how does the employer pay for legal adviser? I'd  have thought you'd need to pay for your own (apologies - I'm a total newbie when it comes to anything HR related)

Marcon

miss_kau said:

Alfrescodave said:

My son went through a very similar situation and obtained legal advice, which his employer paid for. The legal advisers took full control of the negotiating process and obtained a very generous package for him so I would strongly recommend this route.

Why/how does the employer pay for legal adviser? I'd  have thought you'd need to pay for your own (apologies - I'm a total newbie when it comes to anything HR related)

Standard practice for an employer to offer a fixed amount for legal advice. Ensures that any agreement signed off is on the basis that the employee has had independent legal advice, so any subsequent complaint by the employee would then be against the legal adviser, not the (former) employer.