Settlement Advice

goater78

Hoping someone can help!

One of my friends is going through an issue at work at the moment.  The relationship between her and her manager has broken down and it is creating an uncomfortable atmosphere (similar to Phil and Holly!).  They have had discussions and it doesn't appear to have any chance of being resolved.  As a result the company's management have opened discussions on a negotiated settlement where she will agree to leave for a set sum of money.  There are no grounds for disciplinary or redundancy so if she refused then they have no easy way of getting rid of her.

Her current salary is £50k a year and she has 20 years services.  Her notice period is 3 months.

What do people think is a reasonable settlement agreement to ask for?  I was thinking 6 months but am not sure if that is too low (or high).

What do people think is a good starting point in the negotiations?

Marcon

goater78 said:

Hoping someone can help!

One of my friends is going through an issue at work at the moment.  The relationship between her and her manager has broken down and it is creating an uncomfortable atmosphere (similar to Phil and Holly!).  They have had discussions and it doesn't appear to have any chance of being resolved.  As a result the company's management have opened discussions on a negotiated settlement where she will agree to leave for a set sum of money.  There are no grounds for disciplinary or redundancy so if she refused then they have no easy way of getting rid of her.

Her current salary is £50k a year and she has 20 years services.  Her notice period is 3 months.

What do people think is a reasonable settlement agreement to ask for?  I was thinking 6 months but am not sure if that is too low (or high).

What do people think is a good starting point in the negotiations?

An agreed settlement is highly preferable for everyone, but she shouldn't over-estimate the strength of her negotiating position. If there is no chance of mending the relationship, or taking steps to keep the warring parties apart(!), dismissal on the grounds of 'Some Other Substantial Reason' is going to be the only sensible option. SOSR is one of the six reasons for 'fair' dismissal.
 
A good starting point is to let the employer make the first offer.

Undervalued

Marcon said:

goater78 said:

Hoping someone can help!

One of my friends is going through an issue at work at the moment.  The relationship between her and her manager has broken down and it is creating an uncomfortable atmosphere (similar to Phil and Holly!).  They have had discussions and it doesn't appear to have any chance of being resolved.  As a result the company's management have opened discussions on a negotiated settlement where she will agree to leave for a set sum of money.  There are no grounds for disciplinary or redundancy so if she refused then they have no easy way of getting rid of her.

Her current salary is £50k a year and she has 20 years services.  Her notice period is 3 months.

What do people think is a reasonable settlement agreement to ask for?  I was thinking 6 months but am not sure if that is too low (or high).

What do people think is a good starting point in the negotiations?

An agreed settlement is highly preferable for everyone, but she shouldn't over-estimate the strength of her negotiating position. If there is no chance of mending the relationship, or taking steps to keep the warring parties apart(!), dismissal on the grounds of 'Some Other Substantial Reason' is going to be the only sensible option. SOSR is one of the six reasons for 'fair' dismissal.
 
A good starting point is to let the employer make the first offer.

I agree.

The average award for unfair dismissal is far lower than most people realise. The relatively few headline grabbing awards usually involve blatant unlawful discrimination and grab headlines partly for that reason and partly because they are unusual!

Obviously, based only on what has been posted here I would have though 6 months would be the maximum and she may well have to settle for less.

It is also surprising easy to "manage somebody out" perfectly lawfully if it is done carefully.....

goater78

Undervalued said:

Marcon said:

goater78 said:

Hoping someone can help!

One of my friends is going through an issue at work at the moment.  The relationship between her and her manager has broken down and it is creating an uncomfortable atmosphere (similar to Phil and Holly!).  They have had discussions and it doesn't appear to have any chance of being resolved.  As a result the company's management have opened discussions on a negotiated settlement where she will agree to leave for a set sum of money.  There are no grounds for disciplinary or redundancy so if she refused then they have no easy way of getting rid of her.

Her current salary is £50k a year and she has 20 years services.  Her notice period is 3 months.

What do people think is a reasonable settlement agreement to ask for?  I was thinking 6 months but am not sure if that is too low (or high).

What do people think is a good starting point in the negotiations?

An agreed settlement is highly preferable for everyone, but she shouldn't over-estimate the strength of her negotiating position. If there is no chance of mending the relationship, or taking steps to keep the warring parties apart(!), dismissal on the grounds of 'Some Other Substantial Reason' is going to be the only sensible option. SOSR is one of the six reasons for 'fair' dismissal.
 
A good starting point is to let the employer make the first offer.

I agree.

The average award for unfair dismissal is far lower than most people realise. The relatively few headline grabbing awards usually involve blatant unlawful discrimination and grab headlines partly for that reason and partly because they are unusual!

Obviously, based only on what has been posted here I would have though 6 months would be the maximum and she may well have to settle for less.

It is also surprising easy to "manage somebody out" perfectly lawfully if it is done carefully.....

Yes I realise it’s easy to manage someone out lawfully but the process (based on the organisations policies) would take around three months, plus if you play the work policies well enough you can drag that out longer than that. Then when you’re dismissed as it’s not gross misconduct they’ll pay your three months notice. 

TELLIT01

3 months pay, and immediate release as a minimum.  Possibly one or two months pay above that if arm twisting will work.  It really depends on who is more keen for the relationship to end.

MalMonroe

But why is your friend having to leave???

Why haven't management got to the core of the problem?

I would not want to leave any employment under this kind of cloud because no matter who is right or wrong, or indeed if anyone is either, it looks bad that she's leaving.

Please do ask her to contact acas and have a word with somebody there before she agrees to anything at all.

Link - https://www.acas.org.uk/contact

I fear for an organisation that concludes that one of their employees has to leave because they 'don't get on with their manager and there is an atmosphere'. That can be said of many, many workplaces, all over the world.

(This is nothing like Phil and Holly's situation - particularly as nobody really knows the true facts behind what's happened there.)

Acas is my recommendation. She may well have far more rights than she knows and I would say, in contradiction of Marcon, above (sorry) that she shouldn't under-estimate her bargaining position.

Even if she wants to leave the place, it wouldn't hurt to find out what her real choices are. That is, not those suggested by her flaky employer.

This is, of course, only my opinion and what I'd do - especially after working somewhere for twenty years. Where on earth is her employer's loyalty?!

YBR

TELLIT01 said:

3 months pay, and immediate release as a minimum.  Possibly one or two months pay above that if arm twisting will work.  It really depends on who is more keen for the relationship to end.

This and a pre-agreed positive/factual reference.

Is your friend already looking at new jobs and how small is the industry?
I think it's really important that she's not perceived as bring to blaim which might be read as why she's leaving and not the manager. In small industries this will become known.
She needs to be able to answer positively as to why she's moving on and not be contradicted by the ex-employer.

Marcon

MalMonroe said:

But why is your friend having to leave???

Why haven't management got to the core of the problem?

I would not want to leave any employment under this kind of cloud because no matter who is right or wrong, or indeed if anyone is either, it looks bad that she's leaving.

Please do ask her to contact acas and have a word with somebody there before she agrees to anything at all.

Link - https://www.acas.org.uk/contact

I fear for an organisation that concludes that one of their employees has to leave because they 'don't get on with their manager and there is an atmosphere'. That can be said of many, many workplaces, all over the world.

(This is nothing like Phil and Holly's situation - particularly as nobody really knows the true facts behind what's happened there.)

Acas is my recommendation. She may well have far more rights than she knows and I would say, in contradiction of Marcon, above (sorry) that she shouldn't under-estimate her bargaining position.

Even if she wants to leave the place, it wouldn't hurt to find out what her real choices are. That is, not those suggested by her flaky employer.

This is, of course, only my opinion and what I'd do - especially after working somewhere for twenty years. Where on earth is her employer's loyalty?!

In the real world, some problems can't be resolved, particularly when they involve two individuals who are clearly never going to see eye to eye or work together successfully, judging by what OP has said!.

ACAS won't be able to do much except repeat what I've already said: SOSR is a 'fair' reason for dismissal.

The employer can be expected to pay for her to receive independent legal advice, and that's where she should be having any discussions - not with ACAS, not on this board, not with her friends, however well meaning.

goater78

YBR said:

TELLIT01 said:

3 months pay, and immediate release as a minimum.  Possibly one or two months pay above that if arm twisting will work.  It really depends on who is more keen for the relationship to end.

This and a pre-agreed positive/factual reference.

Is your friend already looking at new jobs and how small is the industry?
I think it's really important that she's not perceived as bring to blaim which might be read as why she's leaving and not the manager. In small industries this will become known.
She needs to be able to answer positively as to why she's moving on and not be contradicted by the ex-employer.

She works in IT as a product manager. There are lots of jobs around at the moment so don’t think she will struggle getting a new one. 

Undervalued

Marcon said:

MalMonroe said:

But why is your friend having to leave???

Why haven't management got to the core of the problem?

I would not want to leave any employment under this kind of cloud because no matter who is right or wrong, or indeed if anyone is either, it looks bad that she's leaving.

Please do ask her to contact acas and have a word with somebody there before she agrees to anything at all.

Link - https://www.acas.org.uk/contact

I fear for an organisation that concludes that one of their employees has to leave because they 'don't get on with their manager and there is an atmosphere'. That can be said of many, many workplaces, all over the world.

(This is nothing like Phil and Holly's situation - particularly as nobody really knows the true facts behind what's happened there.)

Acas is my recommendation. She may well have far more rights than she knows and I would say, in contradiction of Marcon, above (sorry) that she shouldn't under-estimate her bargaining position.

Even if she wants to leave the place, it wouldn't hurt to find out what her real choices are. That is, not those suggested by her flaky employer.

This is, of course, only my opinion and what I'd do - especially after working somewhere for twenty years. Where on earth is her employer's loyalty?!

In the real world, some problems can't be resolved, particularly when they involve two individuals who are clearly never going to see eye to eye or work together successfully, judging by what OP has said!.

ACAS won't be able to do much except repeat what I've already said: SOSR is a 'fair' reason for dismissal.

The employer can be expected to pay for her to receive independent legal advice, and that's where she should be having any discussions - not with ACAS, not on this board, not with her friends, however well meaning.

Sadly there are some posters on this forum who have little or no concept of the real world.

I totally agree with everything that you (Marcon) have said in your two posts on this thread.

El_Torro

There seem to be some very low expectations on this board. Considering that she has 20 years of service then I would say that 1 month for every year is a reasonable settlement, especially given the circumstances. I'd perhaps push that to two years salary. Depending on the company I wouldn't be surprised if she got more. 

I agree with Marcon that letting the employer make the first offer is the way to go.

These kind of settlements differ depending on the company and the industry. If I were in that position I would be shocked to receive a first offer of less than 1 year's salary though.