Minimum card spend.

Albermarle

MattMattMattUK said:

Albermarle said:

a_car_person said:

Minimum spend on card purchases are so infuriating, I wanted to buy a £2.50 newspaper (as a one off) and then had to buy something I neither wanted nor needed to take it up to £3.

I know they do it to make offering card payments profitable due to the fees they incur but it really is frustrating when we live in a near-cashless society.

I also think they aren’t allowed to do this for licensing reasons but I’m not 100% sure. 

I do not really understand why people deliberately carry no cash at all, when it clearly can inconvenience them, like above. 

I have not used cash since 2019 and that was less than £100 over the year, it has once in that time caused me a mild inconvenience, I just walked slightly further. 

Albermarle said:

Logical answer is to always have a couple of fivers/tenners and a bit of loose change with you. Not exactly a big issue to do that, and it solves all these irritations about minimum card spend/card reader not working. A very easy and simple solution that reduces potential stress.

That is not really the logical answer though, the occasional (once every three years) minor inconvenience from not carrying cash is completely outweighed by not having to carry cash the rest of the time. I also would not find it stressful if for some minor transaction I was unable to complete it, I just would not bother. 

I can only say I have seen a couple of times when it was more than just a minor inconvenience, especially when the card reader stopped working when trying to enter a venue. Once it happened at a swimming pool and the reception was full of disappointed crying children of the parents who did not have any cash with them.
Anyway it is a personal choice in the end.

Paully28

I don't not carry cash on purpose, I just don't use it very often so don't carry it around with me. 
The only place I have to have cash is at my barbers, and once a month I make sure I have enough to cover the haircut. 

a_car_person

Albermarle said:

a_car_person said:

Minimum spend on card purchases are so infuriating, I wanted to buy a £2.50 newspaper (as a one off) and then had to buy something I neither wanted nor needed to take it up to £3.

I know they do it to make offering card payments profitable due to the fees they incur but it really is frustrating when we live in a near-cashless society.

I also think they aren’t allowed to do this for licensing reasons but I’m not 100% sure. 

I do not really understand why people deliberately carry no cash at all, when it clearly can inconvenience them, like above. 

Logical answer is to always have a couple of fivers/tenners and a bit of loose change with you. Not exactly a big issue to do that, and it solves all these irritations about minimum card spend/card reader not working. A very easy and simple solution that reduces potential stress.

Where I live there’s no cash point for miles and I can do 99% of my spending on a card (using my watch so I don’t even carry a wallet) so I don’t bother carrying cash. 

TheBanker

I have just been for a few days at the seaside (in the UK). Before I went, I withdrew some cash expecting to need it for small things like ice creams and snacks.

In fact most of the kiosks were card only, and I didn't go anywhere that insisted on cash payment. I have returned home with the exact amount of cash I took, and on Saturday went to the Post Office to put it back into my bank account. 

Murphybear

TheBanker said:

I have just been for a few days at the seaside (in the UK). Before I went, I withdrew some cash expecting to need it for small things like ice creams and snacks.

In fact most of the kiosks were card only, and I didn't go anywhere that insisted on cash payment. I have returned home with the exact amount of cash I took, and on Saturday went to the Post Office to put it back into my bank account. 

I live in rural Dorset.  I have a long list of places that take cash and a slightly shorter list of places that only take cash.  

QrizB

MDMD said:

But a trader has the right under contract law to refuse to accept any offer from a customer to buy goods or services (subject to various anti-discrimination rules).

However, that isn't the situation that the OP describes.

• OP: Good afternoon Mr Newsagent, I would like to buy this copy of Angling Times.
• Newsagent: Very well sir, that will be £2.50
• OP: Excellent, that will be satisfactory.
  

As far as I can tell (and I'm not a contract lawyer), that's offer and acceptance. You've now established a contract between OP and Mr Newsagent. OP is obliged to pay £2.50 and Mr Newsagent is obliged to supply a copy of Angling Times.

What we're discussing is that Mr Newsagent has previously indicated that they will accept Dogecard as payment (there's a "Dogecard accepted here" sign in the window) but, when OP offers his Dogecard, Mr Newsagent now says "sorry sir, I can't accept that for this transaction".

CliveOfIndia

QrizB said:

MDMD said:

But a trader has the right under contract law to refuse to accept any offer from a customer to buy goods or services (subject to various anti-discrimination rules).

However, that isn't the situation that the OP describes.

• OP: Good afternoon Mr Newsagent, I would like to buy this copy of Angling Times.
• Newsagent: Very well sir, that will be £2.50
• OP: Excellent, that will be satisfactory.
  

As far as I can tell (and I'm not a contract lawyer), that's offer and acceptance. You've now established a contract between OP and Mr Newsagent. OP is obliged to pay £2.50 and Mr Newsagent is obliged to supply a copy of Angling Times.

What we're discussing is that Mr Newsagent has previously indicated that they will accept Dogecard as payment (there's a "Dogecard accepted here" sign in the window) but, when OP offers his Dogecard, Mr Newsagent now says "sorry sir, I can't accept that for this transaction".

The situation you describe is where the definition of "Legal Tender" comes into play.  A very interesting article here: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/what-is-legal-tender

As noted in the article, Legal Tender has very little meaning in everyday life, but it does have a precise legal definition.  Whilst Mr. Newsagent may choose to accept Dogecard, he doesn't have to as it's not legal tender.  So if you offer to pay by Dogecard and he refuses to accept it, the debt still stands.  However, if you offer to pay with a £2 coin and a 50p coin he must accept that in settlement of the debt.

In practice, of course, it would probably never happen - but according to the strict letter of the law, that's the potential situation that could arise.

HillStreetBlues

CliveOfIndia said:

The situation you describe is where the definition of "Legal Tender" comes into play.  A very interesting article here: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/what-is-legal-tender

As noted in the article, Legal Tender has very little meaning in everyday life, but it does have a precise legal definition.  Whilst Mr. Newsagent may choose to accept Dogecard, he doesn't have to as it's not legal tender.  So if you offer to pay by Dogecard and he refuses to accept it, the debt still stands.  However, if you offer to pay with a £2 coin and a 50p coin he must accept that in settlement of the debt.

In practice, of course, it would probably never happen - but according to the strict letter of the law, that's the potential situation that could arise.

No, Mr Newsagent doesn't have to accept that.
A £50 pound note is also legal tender, but Mr Newsagent can also refuse that.

Andy_L

CliveOfIndia said:

QrizB said:

MDMD said:

But a trader has the right under contract law to refuse to accept any offer from a customer to buy goods or services (subject to various anti-discrimination rules).

However, that isn't the situation that the OP describes.

• OP: Good afternoon Mr Newsagent, I would like to buy this copy of Angling Times.
• Newsagent: Very well sir, that will be £2.50
• OP: Excellent, that will be satisfactory.
  

As far as I can tell (and I'm not a contract lawyer), that's offer and acceptance. You've now established a contract between OP and Mr Newsagent. OP is obliged to pay £2.50 and Mr Newsagent is obliged to supply a copy of Angling Times.

What we're discussing is that Mr Newsagent has previously indicated that they will accept Dogecard as payment (there's a "Dogecard accepted here" sign in the window) but, when OP offers his Dogecard, Mr Newsagent now says "sorry sir, I can't accept that for this transaction".

The situation you describe is where the definition of "Legal Tender" comes into play.  A very interesting article here: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/what-is-legal-tender

As noted in the article, Legal Tender has very little meaning in everyday life, but it does have a precise legal definition.  Whilst Mr. Newsagent may choose to accept Dogecard, he doesn't have to as it's not legal tender.  So if you offer to pay by Dogecard and he refuses to accept it, the debt still stands.  However, if you offer to pay with a £2 coin and a 50p coin he must accept that in settlement of the debt.

In practice, of course, it would probably never happen - but according to the strict letter of the law, that's the potential situation that could arise.

The offer/acceptance for the newspaper hasn't established a debt. It would have for something like a haircut or restaurant meal where payment is after the service

HillStreetBlues

QrizB said:

MDMD said:

But a trader has the right under contract law to refuse to accept any offer from a customer to buy goods or services (subject to various anti-discrimination rules).

However, that isn't the situation that the OP describes.

• OP: Good afternoon Mr Newsagent, I would like to buy this copy of Angling Times.
• Newsagent: Very well sir, that will be £2.50
• OP: Excellent, that will be satisfactory.
  

As far as I can tell (and I'm not a contract lawyer), that's offer and acceptance. You've now established a contract between OP and Mr Newsagent. OP is obliged to pay £2.50 and Mr Newsagent is obliged to supply a copy of Angling Times.

What we're discussing is that Mr Newsagent has previously indicated that they will accept Dogecard as payment (there's a "Dogecard accepted here" sign in the window) but, when OP offers his Dogecard, Mr Newsagent now says "sorry sir, I can't accept that for this transaction".

There is no contract in that scenario,

The Angling Times is an invitation to treat.
Mr Newsagent has stated the price (£2.50).
The OP then offers £2.50.
Mr Newsagent hasn't accepted the offer, if Mr Newsagent states sold  then there is a contract,  or if Mr Newsagent accepts the 50 bob then it's also a contract.

An auction is also an invitation to treat.
A price might be listed at £2.50  and you are the highest bider at  £3  the auctioneer  still doesn't have to sell to you.