Letter of Claim from DCB Legal on behalf of UKPC

Jammin1

I was just having another look at my defence, and particularly paragraphs 3 and 4. The time between the car entering and leaving the car park was 18 minutes. I don't mention that in my defence but my worry would be if that a judge could considerer that too long for loading/unloading?

Relatedly, the other thing that slightly concerned me was my mentioning of the fact that the driver never left the car, as per the concept of parking. I saw in the 'Irrelevant Defences and how to Avoid them'  forum that @Coupon-mad had said:

Stopped is pretty much parked, unless exempt activity is being undertaken, like helping a child or disabled passenger into/out of adjacent premises for the purpose of boarding or alighting the vehicle. Or loading/unloading where that is not disallowed.

We get people here saying 'the engine was on and someone was in the car'. Errrm, yes, so what, that is parked if it continues for more than a momentary short period. A Council would say so about a real PCN, and a County court Judge might say so too.

So be ready to argue 'grace period not applied' if it was mere minutes.

So I'm worried that a judge might view those 18 minutes as parking, and it might be irrelevant that the driver never left the car. Any thoughts?

As a reminder of my paragraphs 3 and 4:

3. The driver was driving a passenger to a friend’s residence and needed to drop the friend off at her place of residence to collect some items on the way. As such, the driver dropped the passenger off in a car park and waited in the car for her to collect her items before exiting the car park. The driver remained in the vehicle throughout.

4. In Jopson v Homeguard, paragraphs 19 and 20, the court ruled that the concept of parking ‘is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture.’ The Parking Charge Notice is based on the idea that the driver was parking, when in fact the driver had neither left the car, as per the concept of parking, nor had stayed beyond a during of time needed for the passenger to walk into the accommodation block, enter her residence, gather some items and return back to the car.

Umkomaas

So I'm worried that a judge might view those 18 minutes as parking, and it might be irrelevant that the driver never left the car. Any thoughts?

My thoughts?  A judge is never going to see this, it will be discontinued in the not too distant future. Stop trying to gild the lily in your Defence. 

1505grandad

"I was just having another look at my defence, ...."

"I don't mention that in my defence....."

This is on page 4 now so unless posters look back on previous page/s ............?

Jammin1

@Coupon-mad any news on the DLUHC's draft impact assessment & public consultation? If not, I'm considering submitting the defence today on behalf of my wife, just to be on the safe side in case there are any technical difficulties in submission and given that the defence is due tomorrow. 

Coupon-mad

No news yet so email the defence (make sure you get an auto-reply) and do cone back in a couple if weeks, in August, to learn about the DLUHC's analysis and what we are saying about it and how your evidence can help.

And how the Government's woods might help your wife's case.

Jammin1

Hello everyone, just to update my wife's defence was submitted and we now await the DQ.

But in the meanwhile my wife received a letter today from a debt collection agency for £189 regarding an unpaid penalty charge notice from Coventry City Council for driving in a bus lane. I'm going to ask for advice re the bus lane penalty from pepipoo.com.  But in the same way as the parking charge, the first we hear about these charges is when they get to a late stage with the costs massively inflated. This is because the V5C address wasn't changed on my wife's car when we moved house, meaning the PCNs and reminder letters were going to the wrong address and so never received. But it got me wondering whether there could be any other charges, penalties, speeding tickets etc which could also be out there which were not received over the 14 months where the car was registered to the wrong address. Is there any way of knowing or finding out? Or do we just wait until we receive LBC's or debt collection letters to our current address?

Coupon-mad

Yes - she can ask the DVLA "who has accessed my data from the DVLA within certain dates?".

DO NOT pay a fee or fill in a form and tell the DVLA they are wrong if they ask for that.  She just reminds the DVLA she is asking about her own vehicle and no fee is payable.

Umkomaas

Coupon-mad said:

Yes - she can ask the DVLA "who has accessed my data from the DVLA within certain dates?".

DO NOT pay a fee or fill in a form and tell the DVLA they are wrong if they ask for that.  She just reminds the DVLA she is asking about her own vehicle and no fee is payable.

Email the DVLA and ask which organisations (when and for what reason) accessed the registered keeper's data from them between a range of dates which includes the date(s) of the motoring incident(s). You need to provide the registered keeper's full name and address, the address on the V5C logbook and the Vehicle Registration Mark of the vehicle involved in the parking incident. 

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk

This service is free of charge. 

Even though you email your request, the DVLA will respond via Royal Mail.

Jammin1

Many thanks guys

Jammin1

So I heard back from the DVLA and they sent me the information as attached. I'm not sure what most of them are. The one from CDER regarding the traffic warrant for driving in a bus lane I've recently paid so that's been dealt with. But I'm not sure about any of the others, although I do remember driving accross the toll bridge and forgetting to pay online. How should I proceed?