Compensation / Damages for leaking new windows, slow response, mould, stress etc.

richrips

Hi All,

Brief description:
We have had every window in our house replaced and one that has been converted in to a sliding double door, as part of a full house renovation. Total to supply and fit 13 UPVC windows and UPVC sliding double door was £18,000. The window company was to complete all the external work. The windows have leaked ever since being fitted 7 months ago which has caused physical damage to our house including huge amounts of mould growth, held up renovation work around/below leaks, and caused immense stress and worry to ourselves. We feel the windows should not have been fitted a month late, should not have leaked, and leaks should have been investigated faster and repaired successfully much sooner. We would like to know what would be a reasonable figure to ask for in compensation, and the most effective/affordable way to go about getting it.

Timeline:
End of September 2022: The company had to delay initial fitting by a week due to illness.

End of October 2022: Fitting then took longer than planned, eventually being completed over a month later than planned.

Mid November 2022: The windows facing the weather leaked following the first heavy rain, with large amounts of water visible dripping in to the ground floor rooms from the windows upstairs. We emailed description, images and videos to the company.

End of November 2022: Company sent someone to re-seal windows externally.

Mid December 2022: More heavy rain, windows leaked just as bad as previously. We sent the company more vids and pics of soaking walls, water dripping in to ground floor, and mould appearing on new plasterboard fitted to internal reveals. The company replied saying it was up to us to paint the new render repairs around the external edges of the windows as rain could be soaking through that. We replied that the amount of water leaking in suggested a bigger issue than just unpainted render. We painted the external render areas and waited for more rain.

Early January 2023: More heavy rain, windows leak as before. We phone the company (should have emailed in retrospect), who emailed to say they would attend to investigate in a weeks time. 

Mid January 2023: Window company visits, and attempts to seal the windows further, this time from the inside, which included cutting back new plasterboard reveals. They then email to say they have "solved the leaking issues". We replied to say we'd reserve judgement until the next heavy rain.

Early March 2023: We leave the house for several weeks.

End of March 2023: Heavy rain, windows leak as before. We also opened some internal storage cupboards on the same SW-facing wall as the worst leaks, only to discover that large amounts of stored clothing, camping gear (including nearly new down sleeping bags, jackets etc), were covered in mould despite having lived in the same cupboards, mould-free for nearly 3 years. 

Early April 2023: Window company surveyor visits and, with the help of our garden water sprayer, demonstrate that water is clearly still able to leak from outside the windows in to the house. The company emails a week later to say they can attend site to make more repairs, but not for over 2 weeks. We reply asking for a closer date, but get no reply.

End April 2023: Window company attends and tries replacing the end caps on several of the window cills which were not well sealed to the cills initially. Following this they sprayed the windows and found they were still leaking.

Early May 2023: We email the company with a timeline of events as above and a description of the issues caused, along with the suggestion that we may seek compensation and are happy to use ADR (alternative dispute resolution) to agree on a sensible amount. This gets a much faster reply than previous messages.

Mid May 2023 (just this week in fact!): The company attends, and completely removes a window, before re-fitting it, presumably with as much attention to detail as possible. The following day the company sends a surveyor who sprays water on that window, which finally seems to be cured of leaks.

Currently: The company is due to attend in a week to remove all leaking windows and re-install them in a similar manner.

Problems Caused:
-Renovation Paused: All interior work around leaking windows has had to be paused from November 2022 to the present day, to avoid damage to new work. Some new work was done inside leaking windows (plasterboard attached to reveals). This has knock-on effects as we can't "move-in" to unfinished rooms, but we need to move our furniture around the house in order to redecorate each room, so our possessions have ended up "stuck" in the few rooms that could be finished.

-Water/Mould damage: A lot of mould has appeared since the leaks, in areas that never suffered from mould before. I don't know the legal aspect of linking massive water leaks to compensation for mould damage, but it seems there's a fairly obvious link there. Some new plasterboard has been so damaged by mould that it will need replacing. This is despite regular heating and constantly running two dehumidifiers.

-Unknown which windows leak: We don't really know which windows in the house are leak-free, because almost all the heavy rain over the winter has come from the South West, which is the side of yhe house that has had the most obvious leaks. This means we just don't know whether the other windows are truly leak-free, or have just avoided the rain. Most windows without obvious leaks have had all interior works completed around them (plasterboard, plastering, paintwork, flooring). We don't know whether to allow/encourage the window company to remove and re-install all the windows (potentially damaging new interior work), or We haven't fitted a single window cill as we don't trust the windows and an internal cill makes spotting a leak difficult.

Time: We feel that the window company's response has been slow in most occasions. More than once, it has taken them more than 2 weeks to attend site following known leaks. Linked to this is the huge amount of our time that has been taken up phoning, emailing, pointing out issues on-site, etc etc. Overall, we don't feel we should be here 7 months after windows fitted, with leaks still present and the possibility of disruptive window removal/re-installation looming.

Stress: This whole experience has been horribly stressful. Speaking about the issue to anyone induces stressful feelings. We aren't naturals at complaining and have never considered seeking compensation for anything before.

Questions for You:
How to go about requesting compensation? There are several standard-format letters available from MSE, Citizen's Advice,  etc which outline how to complain. These are great resources but I wonder if they are sufficient to cover all aspects of our complaint?

How much to claim? There's very little of our complaint that we can put a precise cost on. What about our possessions damaged by mould? What is our time spent dealing with the issues worth? How do you quantify the cost of living in a building site because renovation work is held up by leaks? What is a fair amount to claim for the stress caused? 

Should we pay a solicitor to help? We spoke to a local firm yesterday who have quoted £750-1000 to open a file, review our evidence, and possibly write a letter to the company. We have no idea if this is worth paying for.

Any help much appreciated!

Many thanks,
R

tightauldgit

As a general rule any compensation claim should be for the amount of direct financial loss that you have sustained as a result of the negligence of the other party. Claims for things like stress or inconvenience are unlikely to be successful. 

Given that the company appears to have agreed to replace your windows (and fingers crossed it'll be done properly this time around) then I'd say it's unlikely to be worth the cost of engaging a solicitor to pursue further damages unless you think you have sustained five figure financial losses as a result of this work which seems unlikely if the extent of the damage is replacing some plasterboard.

Your best bet is probably to write to the company set out your complaint and ask them what they are willing to offer you as a goodwill gesture.   

screech_78

Honestly, you’re looking at a goodwill gesture.

If you want to take legal action, you need to be able to quantify your losses. You can’t magic numbers from thin air. Forget stress, house renovations are stressful anyway. 

DullGreyGuy

richrips said:

Questions for You:
How to go about requesting compensation? There are several standard-format letters available from MSE, Citizen's Advice,  etc which outline how to complain. These are great resources but I wonder if they are sufficient to cover all aspects of our complaint?

How much to claim? There's very little of our complaint that we can put a precise cost on. What about our possessions damaged by mould? What is our time spent dealing with the issues worth? How do you quantify the cost of living in a building site because renovation work is held up by leaks? What is a fair amount to claim for the stress caused? 

Should we pay a solicitor to help? We spoke to a local firm yesterday who have quoted £750-1000 to open a file, review our evidence, and possibly write a letter to the company. We have no idea if this is worth paying for.

Havent seen the templates in question but they are probably reasonable given the sources.

Most court cases are about special damages, these are precises financial losses, so if an item was damaged by mould how much did it cost to repair? If it was unrepairable then what was the secondhand value of the item immediately prior to the mould growth? If its that you are just living with the damage to the item then in theory its how much its secondhand value has reduced by due to the mould. eBay Sold Listings is a great resource for these types of things.

Time taken - unlikely to get anything for, courts basically accept life isnt perfect and sometimes you need to spend some of your personal time dealing with messes. If you had to take time off work and didnt get paid as a consequence then that is different but inevitably expect to be challenged on if unpaid leave was strictly necessary. 

Cost of living in a building site - again add up the additional costs and provide receipts, for example if you had no cooking facilities for 2 weeks and so had to have takeaways then you claim the difference between the cost spent on food for those two weeks less what you normally spend on food in 2 weeks. Again expect some challenges on if it werent possible to setup a microwave to be able to cook rather than rely on takeaways

Stress - you would need to get a psychiatric report into your illness, release your GP reports to show all the appointments you had about this, medications prescribed, any prior history of mental illness and likewise from the consultant if the GP referred you for this. If you mean it was just a bit of a pain to deal with then see above


Much of what you are talking about would be covered by a guesture of goodwill,  the law doesnt require goodwill but covers actual losses.

As to a solicitor... you need to work out approximately how much you are claiming for. Assuming there is no medical aspect to it then anything under £10,000 means solicitors costs are unrecoverable so paying them £1,000 to write a letter will be £1,000 off anything you receive and what you receive may be £0

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

Does the paperwork or anything else written stipulate a time for the install to originally be performed please? 

richrips

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies, very much appreciated. I have to admit, I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be much chance of compensation for the time/stress aspect. Are companies really allowed to provide a faulty product/service for such an extended period without the customer becoming entitled to recompense for what seems fairly standard and obvious negative impacts resulting from the product/service? I guess the take-home message is to be more forceful/insistent with the company in the first instant in order to stop an issue dragging-on?

Thanks again,
R

Aylesbury_Duck

richrips said:

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies, very much appreciated. I have to admit, I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be much chance of compensation for the time/stress aspect. Are companies really allowed to provide a faulty product/service for such an extended period without the customer becoming entitled to recompense for what seems fairly standard and obvious negative impacts resulting from the product/service? I guess the take-home message is to be more forceful/insistent with the company in the first instant in order to stop an issue dragging-on?

Thanks again,
R

No, they aren't, but you need to quantify those negative impacts so an amount can be claimed or offered.  If you had unavoidable and mitigated costs arising from the delays and re-done work, add those up and present them in a claim.  If the stress arising from the situation incurred cost (e.g. time off work, medication) then again, compile the resulting doctor's notes and receipts and add them to the claim.  What you're not entitled to is an arbitrary amount because you found the situation stressful and inconvenient, but you can ask for a goodwill payment to recognise those.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

richrips said:

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies, very much appreciated. I have to admit, I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be much chance of compensation for the time/stress aspect. Are companies really allowed to provide a faulty product/service for such an extended period without the customer becoming entitled to recompense for what seems fairly standard and obvious negative impacts resulting from the product/service? I guess the take-home message is to be more forceful/insistent with the company in the first instant in order to stop an issue dragging-on?

Thanks again,
R

The legislation permits you to seek a repeat performance and then a price reduction so there is no obligation to be tied to the trader for extended periods. 

At the point in mid Dec when you noticed that their repeat performance failed you would have been permitted to find someone else to sort the windows and seek a price reduction from the first trader for what ever it cost to remedy. 

DullGreyGuy

richrips said:
Are companies really allowed to provide a faulty product/service for such an extended period without the customer becoming entitled to recompense for what seems fairly standard and obvious negative impacts resulting from the product/service? I guess the take-home message is to be more forceful/insistent with the company in the first instant in order to stop an issue dragging-on?

The reality is that no matter the company there will always be some mistakes made and some disatisified customers.  Those customers are entitled to be indemnified which is to be put back in the same financial position as if the breach of contract had never happened... there is no clause in the law that they should be put into a better financial position than if it had never happened.

In other countries you get punitive damages which are not proportional to the losses sustained by the claimant but are designed purely to punish the defendant... these are not legal in most areas of law in the UK.

For persistent offenders we have other bodies like Trading Standards who can fine companies or take more extreme action but these monies typically go to the government and not to the "victims"

born_again

How much to claim? There's very little of our complaint that we can put a precise cost on. What about our possessions damaged by mould? What is our time spent dealing with the issues worth? How do you quantify the cost of living in a building site because renovation work is held up by leaks? What is a fair amount to claim for the stress caused? 

Mould damage to your goods & damage to fabric of the house. Are quantifiable. 
Fabric of the house should be sorted by them, of finding someone to do it. 
You property damaged, you have to remember you have to duty of care to ensure that you minimise this, so that would have meant check anything stored around the windows to ensure it is not getting damaged.

richrips

Hi All,

I'd like to update this as the issue is still ongoing and now we seem to have reached an impasse...

Timeline (following-on from timeline in first post):

Early June 2023: The window company started taking out windows and reinstalling them with a sheet of damp-proof membrane beneath the window.

Late June 2023: The window company, whilst taking out a first floor window above our back door (the door we use most, and we were both working from home at the time), drop the frame. It falls outside the house, smashing the box containing the gas meter off the wall, immediately adjacent to the back door (<20cm). The gas meter is bent and the utility company attend immediately, disconnecting our gas. Luckily nobody is hurt. The frame is damaged and a new one has to be ordered. The gas meter and box is eventually replaced a week later, with the supply reinstated.

Early July 2023: The window company schedule further work for 28th July. We contest this, pointing out that this leaves us waiting a whole month with unfinished works needed. there is plenty of work remaining aside from the replacement window frame (it needs to be manufactured). However, they refuse our requests to complete other work sooner. At this stage remaining works include: repairs to external reveals, cleaning up residue on windows caused by reinstallation, and reinstalling the sliding door.  So we wait a full month.

Mid July 2023: A whole year since we paid our first 50% installment (~£9000).

Late July 2023: The window company attends site, fits the replacement window frame and starts removing/reinstalling the sliding door. In doing so, they discover the sliding door frame is cracked nearly all the way through in one corner, with signs of glue where someone (presumably the original fitters) have tried to hide the damage. This means a new frame must be ordered.

Early August 2023: We discover that multiple windows are still leaking, with huge amounts of water collecting inside the house, filling up the damp-proof-membrane (several litres in one case), and overflowing inside the house. Water is clearly visible leaking in to several ground floor rooms from the windows above. Investigating the issue myself, I discover that some cills, fitted along with the windows, are not sloping away from the house, and are causing water to flow towards the house. I point this out in an email.

Mid August 2023: We contact the window company who still have not given us a date to complete the work, including fitting the replacement sliding door frame, external repairs to reveals, and repair damage/residue on frames.
Around this time we are made aware that several staff (the main admin lady, her husband, the main surveyor, and the original fitter) have all left the local branch of the window company. Operations manager and senior staff are apparently now working in the branch to sort out the issues there. This explains the incredibly poor/slow service to some extent, but doesn't help us.

Late  August 2023: We go on holiday for a week, during which we give permission for the window company to attend our house to finish the remaining jobs. They email during our holiday announcing that the work is now complete.

Early September 2023: We return from holiday to discover the external window reveals have been finished to a terrible standard (not straight, not symmetrical, not consistent between windows). It honiestly looks like someone has used their bare hands to wipe cement down the reveals. We email to say it is not acceptable.

Monday morning this week: We email the window company, who have not replied for a whole week, (again), saying that we expect the works to be completed within the next 10 working days or we will contact Certass (the window standards trade body that the company are signed-up to), and/or the local press, and/or a solicitor. We also request that they come up with an offer of compensation.

Currently: There has now been an abrupt change in response from the window company. They seem to want me to state in writing that I will not seek compensation going forward, otherwise they will not complete the work. This is surprising as we first mentioned compensation to them in writing back in May, and multiple times since then. It seems from the tone of the email that we are now speaking to the legal dept at the company, although the emails come from the same operations manager we have dealt with for several months. We do not know what to do:

Questions:
If we agree in a written statement that we will not seek compensation, does this mean that when we do demand compensation (as soon as the work is finished) they can use that statement as defence? If we seek compensation, can we still expect the windows to be repaired/maintained under the terms of the 10 year warranty?

It's been horribly stressful. I was actually sick at 2am this morning for no reason I can think of other than the stress caused by this window issue, which is now in its 14th month since initial payment. My partner is similarly distressed. We want the work to be completed, but we don't want to legally shoot ourselves in the foot, or lose any rights regards our warranty.

Any suggestions of action that may help our cause welcome please, and would be greatly appreciated

Many thanks, R