Disputed vet bill

Alderbank

You have duties as well as rights.

You entered into a contract with the vet to provide emergency treatment for your dog and you are obliged to pay for that.
You can subsequently bring a civil claim if you disagree with any aspect of the treatment and the vet might agree to pay all or part of your claim. However there is no legal aid for this so if your claim is denied further action will be expensive unless you can persuade a pets charity to support you.

How much would you be able to spend?

lincroft1710

I think you'll find the RCVS (not the RVCS) are unlikely to do much if anything at all. They tend not to get involved in invoice disputes. Late payment fees are not unlawful but may be difficult to enforce if the client was not informed of them beforehand.

screech_78

All that’s going to happen is here is that you end up with a CCJ and further costs.

Pay the bill and then dispute it. Withholding payment is never the way to resolve matters. 

ripplyuk

Alderbank said:

Heartbroken123 said:

...because he was left untreated by the vets this then developed into Pneumonia, he had been kept in by the vets, you can't treat a respiratory infection without the use of antibiotics...

No.
Lay people often demand them but many respiratory infections cannot be treated by antibiotics.
Pneumonia, for example.

I can’t ignore this. It’s completely wrong. Pneumonia can be bacterial or viral and antibiotics are always used, including with viral pneumonia for the inevitable secondary opportunistic bacterial infections. 

OP, I’m very sorry about your dog. I think you’d be best to speak to a solicitor about a possible clinical negligence claim. 

Aylesbury_Duck

Heartbroken123 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

The pragmatic approach here is to settle the bill, then dispute the type and quality of care received, through the regulatory body if necessary.  You're not in a position where you can refuse to pay the bill simply because you disagree with the care plan provided.  You're only adding to your costs by doing so.

Hi, it's already been reported to the RVCS

I received a letter saying that if I did not pay bill within 7 days they will place the matter into the hands of a debt collection agency who will start collection proceedings and the agency chargers of 25% plus vat, will be added to my outstanding balance , I sent an email and told them that until I am given answers to my questions I am withholding payment , 14 days later I receive another letter from the vets , informing me that they have referred my outstanding balance to an external debt company and gives a new outstanding balance this is 25%, giving 26 days to pay the full amount with added costs, it lists the name of the debt company and contact number , I called the debt company who told me that they had received a referral, but it is on hold, and the 25% that has been added onto my original bill is not from them, it is from the vets who have added a late payment fee, is this even legal? as the vets have led me to believe, that the 25% is from the debt collection company and it isn't it's from them there is no fee from the debt agency the vets also have not  informed me of a late payment fee, what are my rights?

Which I think was unreasonable of you.  Your dog received emergency care, you cannot deny that, so you owe the fee.

It doesn't really matter exactly who levies the 25%, the fact is that there's a late payment charge.  As others have pointed out, whether the charge is lawful and justified depends on the terms and conditions of the vet with which you agreed treatment.  Only you can say if that's the case.  What do those terms say?

Honestly, you're making life harder for yourself by digging your heels in.  If you want to take legal action against the vet for negligence, then you're at liberty to do so, but refusing to pay their bill is not the way to go about it.  Your debt to them is a separate matter to any action you may wish to take against them, so settle the bill (and see if they'll accept 100% rather than the new 125% bill) and then consider your next step.

Alderbank

ripplyuk said:

Alderbank said:

Heartbroken123 said:

...because he was left untreated by the vets this then developed into Pneumonia, he had been kept in by the vets, you can't treat a respiratory infection without the use of antibiotics...

No.
Lay people often demand them but many respiratory infections cannot be treated by antibiotics.
Pneumonia, for example.

I can’t ignore this. It’s completely wrong. Pneumonia can be bacterial or viral and antibiotics are always used, including with viral pneumonia for the inevitable secondary opportunistic bacterial infections. 

OP, I’m very sorry about your dog. I think you’d be best to speak to a solicitor about a possible clinical negligence claim. 

I should have said 'some forms of pneumonia'. Thanks.

But I hope you don't believe that it is wrong to say that there are many respiratory infections which cannot be treated by antibiotics, or that lay people often demand them?

sheramber

You  would be better to pay it and tell them you are paying under protest.

born_again

Heartbroken123 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Heartbroken123 said:

I will try and keep this as brief as possible, I took my dog to the vets with a suspected respiratory infection and moderate dehydration, it's a long story but within 2hrs of being at the vets he had to be put to sleep on vets advice , by this time he was so severely dehydrated he couldn't even stand, and his skin just stood up, I had been told he had received Amoxicillin and a bolus of IV fluids, something didn't add up and when I received my itemized bill the antibiotics were not listed, I requested his clinical records the vet has recorded everything but the antibiotics, I made a complaint asking for a full investigation and listing the questions I wanted answers too also my SAR and said I am withholding payment until I get answers and that I am very dissatisfied with the service my dog received    , 55 days later I receive a reply none of my questions were answered, apart from one and the reason given for the antibiotics not being recorded is confusion had arisen, and the nurse didn't transfer the info from his hospital sheet to my account and as a good will gesture they won't charge me for the antibiotics, she did not answer why the vet also did not document the antibiotics on his clinical records, and no entry from a nurse or how many ml of the bolus of fluids my dog received and the duration ( a bolus is normally 250 mls over 60 mins) ( I have been  charged for a bag of fluids) despite sending 4 emails and making the questions very clear that I want answers to these are valid questions, she has refused to answer including explaining what the confusion was and has sent a letter stating she will not answer my questions, this has now been reported to the RVCS, I received a letter saying that if I did not pay bill within 7 days they will place the matter into the hands of a debt collection agency who will start collection proceedings and the agency chargers of 25% plus vat, will be added to my outstanding balance , I sent an email and told them that until I am given answers to my questions I am withholding payment , 14 days later I receive another letter from the vets , informing me that they have referred my outstanding balance to an external debt company and gives a new outstanding balance this is 25%, giving 26 days to pay the full amount with added costs and if I do not pay they will dispose of my dogs ashes ( only half of the bill is for cremation)  it lists the name of the debt company and contact number , I called the debt company who told me that they had received a referral, but it is on hold, and the 25% that has been added onto my original bill is not from them, it is from the vets who have added a late payment fee, is this even legal? as the vets have led me to believe, that the 25% is from the debt collection company and have not  informed me of a late payment fee, what are my rights? the vets have me over a barrel because they know I will pay because I couldn't bare my dog's ashes going in the bin, I have strong evidence that my dog did not receive any antibiotics and I strongly suspect no or very little IV fluids

There's a lot to take in there, and it's not an easy read, but am I right to summarise that it's the antibiotics and the IV costs that you're disputing, and that they've subsequently waived the cost of the antibiotics?  If that's correct, it seems wrong for you to be withholding all of the payment.  

How much is the bill, and how much are you disputing?  I'd have thought it better to pay the bill and pursue the matter afterwards, because all you've done is incur charges, more hassle and now the emotional leverage of disposal of your dog's remains.

Manxman_in_exile said:

+1            

Hi, there is a lot more to this story, if I had known my dog had not been given antibiotics I would never of agreed to have him put to sleep I was told he had, also if I paid the bill I doubt I would have even received a reply, the vets have also been dishonest regarding what the added 25% is for, unfortunately there isn't much of a choice of vets where I live, and this practice overcharged me hundreds of pounds for another one of my dogs, they had made a mistake but refused to refund me the difference

Yet you state that your dog was given them, only not recorded by the nurse.

apart from one and the reason given for the antibiotics not being recorded is confusion had arisen, and the nurse didn't transfer the info from his hospital sheet to my account and as a good will gesture they won't charge me for the antibiotics, 

That reads that they were given. 
How do you know that they were not given & the same with the IV, without a 3rd party checking.

I can understand your frustration on this, as our dog has just had a months worth of treatment to save a eye, due to a ulcer.

As others settle the bill & carry on with the complaint.

Heartbroken123

It is hard to explain all the details without writing a long post and I think you are getting me confused with someone else my dog didn't have any treatment for an eye ulcer and has never had treatment for an eye ulcer, (1) the timescale doesn't add up, my dog was not himself but wasn't dying he was following me around prior to being taken to the vets and within hours had to be put to sleep ,

( 2 )he was taken to the vets within a few hours of first showing symptoms and due to being a tiny dog if left untreated could easily escalate        ( 3) I was told he needed to be kept in on IV fluids and antibiotics he also had an electrolyte blood test it was NAD she wanted to do a chest x-ray I gave permission for this but said I do not give permission to sedate him because he has bradycardia  (4) I received a phone call just 45 mins after leaving the vets the vet was talking very fast this is something people tend to do when feeling uncomfortable , this was at 17.01pm  I was told he was on IV fluids and had been given a shot of Amoxicillin and that she was going to give him another antibiotic but doesn't mention the name , but he wasn't responding to treatment, a bolus of fluid 250mls is normally over 1 hour or more and  Amoxicillin doesn't work in 45 mins! I said I wanted to continue with IV fluids and antibiotics (5) second call from the vet less than an hour after the first call , vet says he is very unwell she is extremely pushy, and I do mean pushy until I finally agree to have him put to sleep, but I ask to take him home to say goodbye to my other dogs, and so he can sit on his sofa one last time I pick him up he is in a dreadful state and clearly now has pneumonia, he is so severely dehydrated that he can't even stand, and his gums were white, his skin just stood up, he would not be this dehydrated if he had received a bolus of fluid only an hour previous he would at least retained some fluid , this was all very rushed , normally I would have been in the right frame of mind to have questioned this but on the same day a very close friend had also died unexpectedly (6) 3 days after my dog was pts I called the vets for an itemized bill everything is listed but the antibiotics, and they told me he didn't have an x-ray, I ask the vets to confirm the bill is correct they confirm it is, I request my dogs clinical records I am sent them everything is documented by the vet for that day apart from any antibiotics,   (7) I find out that my dogs body is still at the vets 10 days after being pts the reason given is it wasn't documented what I wanted for his ashes, and they felt it was too soon to call, this is untrue I had spoken to them 7 days previously and it also clearly stated on my bill and his clinical records I wanted a scatter box, (8)  I send a  complaint to the vets asking for a full investigation and list clear questions I want answered and I request my SAR    (9)  28 days later I receive a reply that the vet in question is on extended leave and she doesn't want to disturb her I will receive a response in another 28  days, I'm sent my SAR 8 days late, I straight away notice my SAR has been altered , words have been changed and a lot of info missing, so much has been removed that when reading there isn't even clear consent given by me to have my dog pts, having worked for the NHS for 32 years it is drummed into us if it isn't documented it never happened so out of habit I make handwritten notes' word for word and I did this whilst speaking to the vet on the phone, (10) finally I receive a response after waiting nearly 2 months  she hasn't even given the correct reason why I brought my dog in she had written loss of appetite , it is full of medical jargon that she thinks I do not understand she lists every possible cause but the plague she answers none of my questions apart from why the antibiotics were not recorded , the reason given is confusion had arisen and the nurse forgot to transfer the antibiotics from his hospital sheet to my account, baring in mind she doesn't know at this point I have his clinical records she thinks I have my account details, this is also utter rubbish there is nothing to get confused about it is 1 sharp and a sharps bin, she says due to the error of not recording the antibiotics as a good will gesture  I won't be charged for the Amoxicillin,    she states he had a shot of Amoxicillin at 5pm the first phone call from the vet was at 5.01pm so how could the vet possible know he wasn't responding to treatment if he had only been given it 1 min before the call, it would also mean that he had been left for 45 mins after I left him at the vets before getting antibiotics and being so tiny his condition would have escalated if treatment wasn't immediately,( 11) emails go back and forth, she refuses to answer about the timescale , or why the vet has remembered to document everything else in his clinical notes but not antibiotics , or explain what the confusion was, how much mls of fluids my dog received  these are just some of the question asked , in replies she contradicts herself, inadvertently admits to her own lies the list is a long one and this is the very short version of it

Aylesbury_Duck

All very thorough, but it doesn't change the position, which is that you owe them their fee and your complaint is a separate matter.

What answer are you looking for?  That you can justifiably withhold payment?  You can, of course, but as you've discovered, they are lawfully entitled to pursue the debt.