Misrepresentation to access funds

Annisele

concerned43 said:

I went to the bank while waiting on the executor-dative.

Are you in Scotland? I think (but am not certain) that "executor dative" is a Scottish term, and quite a few of the procedures here are different in the different countries of the UK.

BooJewels

Ah I see @concerned43 - that's not going to help you then, sorry.  As was mentioned quite early on, I think your issue is with the bank - if they have published policies on their practices for given scenarios, then they really should follow those practices.  I think you'd need to make a formal complaint, allow it 8 weeks to be resolved and if not, you can then take it to the Financial Ombudsman.  But you might be able to ring the FOS initially to take guidance - whilst it's a good few years ago now, I did that over a bank complaint and they guided me on how to frame my complaint and I did indeed get the outcome I was after, without needing to go back to them.  But that's not going to be a speedy resolution for you.

buddy9

concerned43 said:

I went to the bank while waiting on the executor-dative. I was told I could not access the funds until I had the writ from the court, the account was frozen until the court issued the writ. If you look at the virgin money policy you will see this is their policy.

I could not locate this policy on the VM website. Could you post a link?

elsien

The bit I found said that if the amount was under 35K, it just needed a form filling in.

“When the total funds held with us are less than £35,000 (and the estate is such that Certificate of Confirmation/Grant of Probate or Letters of Administration are not required), our Bereavement Services team will ask for this form to be completed. “

Keep_pedalling

concerned43 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Banks will pay out smaller sums without probate or production of a will to a spouse or the children of the deceased. If they didn’t it would be incredible difficult for small estates where there was no will and there are a very large number of estates like that.

The problem here is your thieving brother. The bank will have got him to sign an indemnity form putting the responsibility entirely on him.

if you have not done so already write to him with a demand that he releases the money to you within 14 days or ease you will be proceeding with legal action to recover the money. If he fails to do so file a Monet claim on line you don’t need legal representation to do this. 

I went to the bank while waiting on the executor-dative. I was told I could not access the funds until I had the writ from the court, the account was frozen until the court issued the writ. If you look at the virgin money policy you will see this is their policy. The lawyer has written to him twice and he has ignored the directives to pay the money back to the estate. 

I have never dealt with Virgin Money and have never seen this requirement mentioned on here before. Their bereavement guide says the following, with no mention of obtaining a writ from the court just a SD.

For total balances of £1,000 or more but below £35,000 we require completion of our Registration of Exectutor(s) / Administrator(s) Form. However, this form needs to be signed and the ‘statutory declaration’ administered by a Solicitor / Commissioner for oaths.

https://uk.virginmoney.com/virgin/downloads/bereavement-guide-vmp270-v12.pdf

They have clearly screwed up big time by telling you to do one thing then simply handing over the money to someone else.

concerned43

Annisele said:

concerned43 said:

I went to the bank while waiting on the executor-dative.

Are you in Scotland? I think (but am not certain) that "executor dative" is a Scottish term, and quite a few of the procedures here are different in the different countries of the UK.

Yes I'm in Scotland, sorry should have said that in original post 

concerned43

BooJewels said:

Ah I see @concerned43 - that's not going to help you then, sorry.  As was mentioned quite early on, I think your issue is with the bank - if they have published policies on their practices for given scenarios, then they really should follow those practices.  I think you'd need to make a formal complaint, allow it 8 weeks to be resolved and if not, you can then take it to the Financial Ombudsman.  But you might be able to ring the FOS initially to take guidance - whilst it's a good few years ago now, I did that over a bank complaint and they guided me on how to frame my complaint and I did indeed get the outcome I was after, without needing to go back to them.  But that's not going to be a speedy resolution for you.

I did make a formal complaint. To be fair they have been totally transparent with me. My brother signed a release form stating that he was acting on behalf of the family. The virgin money teller did not do their job properly and ignored or did not read the instructions on the system that the funds have not to be paid out and await further instructions from estate solicitor. So they have admitted fault. The issue is that the money has been paid out and so far have not been able to get it back. I am facing the time and cost of a court action due to the bank's incompetence. 

concerned43

Keep_pedalling said:

concerned43 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Banks will pay out smaller sums without probate or production of a will to a spouse or the children of the deceased. If they didn’t it would be incredible difficult for small estates where there was no will and there are a very large number of estates like that.

The problem here is your thieving brother. The bank will have got him to sign an indemnity form putting the responsibility entirely on him.

if you have not done so already write to him with a demand that he releases the money to you within 14 days or ease you will be proceeding with legal action to recover the money. If he fails to do so file a Monet claim on line you don’t need legal representation to do this. 

I went to the bank while waiting on the executor-dative. I was told I could not access the funds until I had the writ from the court, the account was frozen until the court issued the writ. If you look at the virgin money policy you will see this is their policy. The lawyer has written to him twice and he has ignored the directives to pay the money back to the estate. 

I have never dealt with Virgin Money and have never seen this requirement mentioned on here before. Their bereavement guide says the following, with no mention of obtaining a writ from the court just a SD.

For total balances of £1,000 or more but below £35,000 we require completion of our Registration of Exectutor(s) / Administrator(s) Form. However, this form needs to be signed and the ‘statutory declaration’ administered by a Solicitor / Commissioner for oaths.

https://uk.virginmoney.com/virgin/downloads/bereavement-guide-vmp270-v12.pdf

They have clearly screwed up big time by telling you to do one thing then simply handing over the money to someone else.

the 'registration of executor(s) /administrator' form requires proof of executor from the court, I don't know if it's different in England but in Scotland the bank requires a copy of the writ. 

Keep_pedalling

concerned43 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

concerned43 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Banks will pay out smaller sums without probate or production of a will to a spouse or the children of the deceased. If they didn’t it would be incredible difficult for small estates where there was no will and there are a very large number of estates like that.

The problem here is your thieving brother. The bank will have got him to sign an indemnity form putting the responsibility entirely on him.

if you have not done so already write to him with a demand that he releases the money to you within 14 days or ease you will be proceeding with legal action to recover the money. If he fails to do so file a Monet claim on line you don’t need legal representation to do this. 

I went to the bank while waiting on the executor-dative. I was told I could not access the funds until I had the writ from the court, the account was frozen until the court issued the writ. If you look at the virgin money policy you will see this is their policy. The lawyer has written to him twice and he has ignored the directives to pay the money back to the estate. 

I have never dealt with Virgin Money and have never seen this requirement mentioned on here before. Their bereavement guide says the following, with no mention of obtaining a writ from the court just a SD.

For total balances of £1,000 or more but below £35,000 we require completion of our Registration of Exectutor(s) / Administrator(s) Form. However, this form needs to be signed and the ‘statutory declaration’ administered by a Solicitor / Commissioner for oaths.

https://uk.virginmoney.com/virgin/downloads/bereavement-guide-vmp270-v12.pdf

They have clearly screwed up big time by telling you to do one thing then simply handing over the money to someone else.

the 'registration of executor(s) /administrator' form requires proof of executor from the court, I don't know if it's different in England but in Scotland the bank requires a copy of the writ. 

It is not the case in England and Wales, but thanks for educating the rest of us on yet another difference in Scottish law.

BooJewels

concerned43 said:

BooJewels said:

Ah I see @concerned43 - that's not going to help you then, sorry.  As was mentioned quite early on, I think your issue is with the bank - if they have published policies on their practices for given scenarios, then they really should follow those practices.  I think you'd need to make a formal complaint, allow it 8 weeks to be resolved and if not, you can then take it to the Financial Ombudsman.  But you might be able to ring the FOS initially to take guidance - whilst it's a good few years ago now, I did that over a bank complaint and they guided me on how to frame my complaint and I did indeed get the outcome I was after, without needing to go back to them.  But that's not going to be a speedy resolution for you.

I did make a formal complaint. To be fair they have been totally transparent with me. My brother signed a release form stating that he was acting on behalf of the family. The virgin money teller did not do their job properly and ignored or did not read the instructions on the system that the funds have not to be paid out and await further instructions from estate solicitor. So they have admitted fault. The issue is that the money has been paid out and so far have not been able to get it back. I am facing the time and cost of a court action due to the bank's incompetence. 

If the bank made an error and admit to it, they need to do something to put it right - telling you to seek legal advice or recourse elsewhere is not the solution.  If you've already started a complaint, it might be worth speaking to the Ombudsman to see what potential recourse you might have with the bank - there is a banking code of practice they have to work to - think this is it: https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/BCOBS.pdf  when I had my problem with a bank, the Ombudsman pointed me to the specific clause in the code to form my argument.

These matters are usually set up to put you back into the position you were in before the problem occurred, so as you now have a funeral debt that you're being chased for, they've put you into a difficult personal position which may have implications to you longer term too.