Which is cheapest - hybrid, plug-in hybrid or fully electric?

Petriix

Oh dear @JKenH, you're being (willfully?) obtuse now. 

If the article doesn't mention the obvious saving (available to at least 50% of households) of using either an EV tariff or just good old Economy 7 then the examples are absolutely misleading. Why on earth would anyone pay nearly £30 for what should cost under £5?

And, yes, we should (and I regularly do) contest unrealistic claims of savings from renewable energy too. I frequently tell people exactly the same as I am here: don't rely on generalisations or assumptions but do your own sums based on your unique circumstances.

JKenH

Petriix said:

Oh dear @JKenH, you're being (willfully?) obtuse now. 

If the article doesn't mention the obvious saving (available to at least 50% of households) of using either an EV tariff or just good old Economy 7 then the examples are absolutely misleading. Why on earth would anyone pay nearly £30 for what should cost under £5?

And, yes, we should (and I regularly do) contest unrealistic claims of savings from renewable energy too. I frequently tell people exactly the same as I am here: don't rely on generalisations or assumptions but do your own sums based on your unique circumstances.

@Petriix don’t be so rude. I am not going to exchange insults with you. I posted a perfectly reasonable article, you’ve had your mischief now pack it in please. 

ComicGeek

Perhaps an article link that doesn't require payment or membership to read would have been useful. As with all things in life, it's all in the detail rather than simplistic headlines.

Anyway, must go and plug the EV in before the home battery gets too full. With PV FITs, deemed export rates and business mileage rates, I get paid about £1.09 for every kWh of PV generation I can put into the EVs.

JKenH

ComicGeek said:

Perhaps an article link that doesn't require payment or membership to read would have been useful. As with all things in life, it's all in the detail rather than simplistic headlines.

Anyway, must go and plug the EV in before the home battery gets too full. With PV FITs, deemed export rates and business mileage rates, I get paid about £1.09 for every kWh of PV generation I can put into the EVs.

Sorry, I thought the link just needed an email address to log in; I didn’t realise you had to pay. I have a Readly account so the link automatically opens on my iPad. I’m not trying to sell Readly but it is worth a look if you have any hobbies or interests covered by magazines. All the popular car mags are on there (more than 150, including some I’d never heard of) so it works out quite well for me. You can share it with other family members. 

Petriix

JKenH said:

Petriix said:

Oh dear @JKenH, you're being (willfully?) obtuse now. 

If the article doesn't mention the obvious saving (available to at least 50% of households) of using either an EV tariff or just good old Economy 7 then the examples are absolutely misleading. Why on earth would anyone pay nearly £30 for what should cost under £5?

And, yes, we should (and I regularly do) contest unrealistic claims of savings from renewable energy too. I frequently tell people exactly the same as I am here: don't rely on generalisations or assumptions but do your own sums based on your unique circumstances.

@Petriix don’t be so rude. I am not going to exchange insults with you. I posted a perfectly reasonable article, you’ve had your mischief now pack it in please. 

I don't think I've been unreasonable or unkind, obtuse isn't an insult, just an observation. You're continuing to ignore the very clear point I'm making so I've every right to continue to call you out for it. It is simply not credible to claim that an EV costs more to run than a hybrid without discussing the huge variability in charging costs. 

shinytop

The use case in the article is almost identical to mine; a lot of short trips and also regular 250 mile round trips.  Although I have off road parking I can't have a smart meter for the foreseeable future so would be paying 34p/kWh.  Even apart from the £40k plus up-front cost, this article confirms an EV isn't for me at the moment.  I'm sure there are a lot like me who can't get the generous BiK subsidy and/or cheap tariffs. 

On a more positive note, I was surprised how economical the hybrid is. Nearly 60 mpg is very good. It's also self charging so I wouldn't have to worry about getting a charger.          

JKenH

shinytop said:

The use case in the article is almost identical to mine; a lot of short trips and also regular 250 mile round trips.  Although I have off road parking I can't have a smart meter for the foreseeable future so would be paying 34p/kWh.  Even apart from the £40k plus up-front cost, this article confirms an EV isn't for me at the moment.  I'm sure there are a lot like me who can't get the generous BiK subsidy and/or cheap tariffs. 

On a more positive note, I was surprised how economical the hybrid is. Nearly 60 mpg is very good. It's also self charging so I wouldn't have to worry about getting a charger.          

I imagine there are many people in your position - particularly those living in rental accommodation.

Based on this Guardian article (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/feb/10/home-ownership-ons-rent ) a third of 35-44 year olds live in rented accommodation and that I suspect is one of the target markets for EV adoption. I don’t know how many rental homes have smart meters but I suspect very few have EV chargers which are needed to access EV tariffs like Octopus Go.

Herzlos

I doubt many landlords will object to a tenant fitting a smart meter or an EV charger, though obviously a tenant may not way to pay for it.

The target market for EV's seem to mostly be as 2nd car replacements for couples - you use the EV for the short journeys and the petrol for the big journeys. Most of the EV households I'm aware of have this kind of set up.

Of course, many of them then find that they rarely use the ICE car and some end up with 2 EVs.

shinytop

Herzlos said:

I doubt many landlords will object to a tenant fitting a smart meter or an EV charger, though obviously a tenant may not way to pay for it.

The target market for EV's seem to mostly be as 2nd car replacements for couples - you use the EV for the short journeys and the petrol for the big journeys. Most of the EV households I'm aware of have this kind of set up.

Of course, many of them then find that they rarely use the ICE car and some end up with 2 EVs.

I wouldn't rule out an EV as a second car but they are a bit expensive for that at the moment.  I suspect that's true for a lot of couples and families.

Herzlos

shinytop said:

Herzlos said:

I doubt many landlords will object to a tenant fitting a smart meter or an EV charger, though obviously a tenant may not way to pay for it.

The target market for EV's seem to mostly be as 2nd car replacements for couples - you use the EV for the short journeys and the petrol for the big journeys. Most of the EV households I'm aware of have this kind of set up.

Of course, many of them then find that they rarely use the ICE car and some end up with 2 EVs.

I wouldn't rule out an EV as a second car but they are a bit expensive for that at the moment.  I suspect that's true for a lot of couples and families.

You can get a Nissan Leaf with a range of about 40 miles for £4k. That'd do us as a 2nd car easily.