Current NW Rental Market

Sarah1Mitty2

Sunsaru said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

Sunsaru said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Ksw3 said:

I know some friends have been invited to do sealed bids for a rental. Its madness out there. 

The flat we just left had a 35% increase in rent and was let within a week. 

I can see that becoming the norm and only the best positioned people being able to rent.

That couldn`t happen without a massive sell-off of BTL, and that would be enough to totally crash the market for flats, as long as there are so many people stuck with BTL mortgages there are always going to be cheap deals for the tenants who search beyond the overpriced agencies (who are paying for wages etc.) Not every landlord is stretched to the max, many can drop the rent to get long term decent tenants.

The fact is this is happening now (it simply is the case now) demand is outstripping supply by over 100:1 in this example.

With this demand landlords do not need to drop rents and they can chose who is best for them. In this thread the LL wanted someone who can pay the rent and stay for 2 years and they hand picked the best candidate for them. 

I suggest you look at how many B&B's are full of local authority housed families and individuals to see the state of the problem and demand and supply. The new rent reform bill means less and less of those will be able to find a property in the future as they are not the "safe" bet.

The 99 people who didn`t get this flat are very unlikely to all be housed in B&B`s by the local authority.

I didn't say they were it was just another point to add that on top of this demand local authorities are reaching out to private landlords begging them to take on some of the 100,000+ families stuck in B&B's

This is something we have done in the past with our local authority but the rent reform bill is incoming sometime in 2024 and we have changed our business model.

Doing general searches around Liverpool, Manchester etc. and playing around with the distance throws up thousands of flats for rent, many at good prices, I don`t think BTL is dead yet or that renters need to be panicking too much either.

This one caught my eye after a few seconds of searching, two people sharing 350 pm each, no problem and plenty left over to throw at the stock market or a money market fund/savings account every month, wouldn`t want to be attached to it via a large mortgage debt though.......

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/134330111#/?channel=RES_LET

A listing only tells half the story. If 10 people/couples went for it then it is questionable if they actually end pay the headline figure. 

But if you include rooms in flats there are  5000 + available rentals right now easily commutable to Manchester/Liverpool, they would find somewhere cheaper if the landlord is trying to play games?

Rooms in this shared flat according to PropertyLog have dropped from asking £110 per week to £82 per week since November, that doesn`t chime with massive demand for me.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/128523512#/?channel=STU_LET

A room in a shared flat has limited appeal. 

For most students and many young working people it probably has much more appeal than staying in a flat on their own, this one is specifically trying to appeal to students.

MultiFuelBurner

You are not a landlord @sarah1mitty2 from what I can tell.

The view is very different this side of the fence and it really is one of doom and gloom for renter's especially those on benefits.

As said in previous posts blame the rent reform bill for LL's leaving this section of the renting market on the shelf.

I am happy to see other LL posting on the forum sharing the same experiences we have had with demand for rented property and what they look for in renter's which they can pick and chose.

I can see you are passionate that rents will fall but sadly they will not whilst demand outstrips supply.

ayupmeduck

Flats in my block have gone up £400 recently, the latest one was taken within 2 days. A flat in my black for sale has reduced by £30k in 2 months.

dimbo61

The 2 properties listed on this post were a 2 bed flat in Widnes for £700 with all bills extra.
The 6 bed student house in a 3 storey terraced house in Liverpool is very cheap at £85 a week with bills included but so many new blocks of student flats have been built in Liverpool over the last few years.
Much more expensive but the Universities are working both University provided blocks of flats and some of the BIG private companies.
Students want ensuite bathrooms and city centre living in many big cities.
The PBSA providers have got Fixed term tenancies for Students in halls.

Sarah1Mitty2

MultiFuelBurner said:

You are not a landlord @sarah1mitty2 from what I can tell.

The view is very different this side of the fence and it really is one of doom and gloom for renter's especially those on benefits.

As said in previous posts blame the rent reform bill for LL's leaving this section of the renting market on the shelf.

I am happy to see other LL posting on the forum sharing the same experiences we have had with demand for rented property and what they look for in renter's which they can pick and chose.

I can see you are passionate that rents will fall but sadly they will not whilst demand outstrips supply.

It really isn`t, read the last comment on the HA thread for example, trust me the doom and gloom is for people with residential and BTL mortgage debt in a rising rate environment, especially recent mortgage borrowing because the pace of rate rises has been extremely fast and the prices got SO crazy just before it all started to unravel, those with MULTIPLE BTL mortgages are far too exposed for this environment and a lot are going to be in trouble soon in my opinion. I know as a landlord you are tempted to believe the "supply and demand" arguments because it is a comforting thought, but it doesn`t really reflect reality, as with all investing when the facts or the reality changes you have to open your mind wide to the changes and the potential effects not shutter yourself in old ideology, however I hope it all works out for you because you sound like you treat your tenants very well.

Mr.Generous

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Ksw3 said:

I know some friends have been invited to do sealed bids for a rental. Its madness out there. 

The flat we just left had a 35% increase in rent and was let within a week. 

I can see that becoming the norm and only the best positioned people being able to rent.

That couldn`t happen without a massive sell-off of BTL, and that would be enough to totally crash the market for flats, as long as there are so many people stuck with BTL mortgages there are always going to be cheap deals for the tenants who search beyond the overpriced agencies (who are paying for wages etc.) Not every landlord is stretched to the max, many can drop the rent to get long term decent tenants.

The fact is this is happening now (it simply is the case now) demand is outstripping supply by over 100:1 in this example.

With this demand landlords do not need to drop rents and they can chose who is best for them. In this thread the LL wanted someone who can pay the rent and stay for 2 years and they hand picked the best candidate for them. 

I suggest you look at how many B&B's are full of local authority housed families and individuals to see the state of the problem and demand and supply. The new rent reform bill means less and less of those will be able to find a property in the future as they are not the "safe" bet.

The 99 people who didn`t get this flat are very unlikely to all be housed in B&B`s by the local authority.

I would imagine quite a few are still with parents, dossing on a sofa with family or freinds. A couple of those we spoke to were in houses that have been sold just awaiting a completion date and feeling pretty desperate. A couple were in flats and wanted some outdoor space. One was in a high crime area and felt teenage son was in danger of being dragged in. Two young people had moved in with grand parents temporarily. Hope that helps. We didn't talk to most, and some of the 100 enquiries may have been duplicates - one from each partner - for all we know. I'm just stating our experience.

MultiFuelBurner

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

You are not a landlord @sarah1mitty2 from what I can tell.

The view is very different this side of the fence and it really is one of doom and gloom for renter's especially those on benefits.

As said in previous posts blame the rent reform bill for LL's leaving this section of the renting market on the shelf.

I am happy to see other LL posting on the forum sharing the same experiences we have had with demand for rented property and what they look for in renter's which they can pick and chose.

I can see you are passionate that rents will fall but sadly they will not whilst demand outstrips supply.

It really isn`t, read the last comment on the HA thread for example, trust me the doom and gloom is for people with residential and BTL mortgage debt in a rising rate environment, especially recent mortgage borrowing because the pace of rate rises has been extremely fast and the prices got SO crazy just before it all started to unravel, those with MULTIPLE BTL mortgages are far too exposed for this environment and a lot are going to be in trouble soon in my opinion. I know as a landlord you are tempted to believe the "supply and demand" arguments because it is a comforting thought, but it doesn`t really reflect reality, as with all investing when the facts or the reality changes you have to open your mind wide to the changes and the potential effects not shutter yourself in old ideology, however I hope it all works out for you because you sound like you treat your tenants very well.

You don't go into being a landlord or multiple BTL(if that's you business model) without the ability to sustain a bit of turbulence especially given the long period of low interest rates.

There are of course some short sighted BTL LL's that have not been chipping away at the mortgages or growing relying on a low interest rate but honestly they shouldn't be in the business anyway and their risk level was too high. What percentage of the market that is I would guess to be 5-10% as most LL's with multiple properties are 58years plus on the last statistics I read and risk adverse.

I don't have to "believe" the supply and demand theory as we live it as part of our business model we would drop rents if supply wasn't there but right now and for the foreseeable rents are on the increase.

Show me the facts and predictions that rents will fall in 2024 as we are already looking ahead to next year.l as every business should.

Sarah1Mitty2

Mr.Generous said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Ksw3 said:

I know some friends have been invited to do sealed bids for a rental. Its madness out there. 

The flat we just left had a 35% increase in rent and was let within a week. 

I can see that becoming the norm and only the best positioned people being able to rent.

That couldn`t happen without a massive sell-off of BTL, and that would be enough to totally crash the market for flats, as long as there are so many people stuck with BTL mortgages there are always going to be cheap deals for the tenants who search beyond the overpriced agencies (who are paying for wages etc.) Not every landlord is stretched to the max, many can drop the rent to get long term decent tenants.

The fact is this is happening now (it simply is the case now) demand is outstripping supply by over 100:1 in this example.

With this demand landlords do not need to drop rents and they can chose who is best for them. In this thread the LL wanted someone who can pay the rent and stay for 2 years and they hand picked the best candidate for them. 

I suggest you look at how many B&B's are full of local authority housed families and individuals to see the state of the problem and demand and supply. The new rent reform bill means less and less of those will be able to find a property in the future as they are not the "safe" bet.

The 99 people who didn`t get this flat are very unlikely to all be housed in B&B`s by the local authority.

I would imagine quite a few are still with parents, dossing on a sofa with family or freinds. A couple of those we spoke to were in houses that have been sold just awaiting a completion date and feeling pretty desperate. A couple were in flats and wanted some outdoor space. One was in a high crime area and felt teenage son was in danger of being dragged in. Two young people had moved in with grand parents temporarily. Hope that helps. We didn't talk to most, and some of the 100 enquiries may have been duplicates - one from each partner - for all we know. I'm just stating our experience.

Fair enough, that is a very reasonable answer, many are maybe not too happy with where they live at the moment I get it, but my experience of using a Rightmove search (and remember that there are many private lets that never get anywhere near RM etc. they are word of mouth, family friend, workmates, newspaper or bulletin board even) was that in your general area there were many decently priced rentals available and if I could be bothered to drive or commute by public transport I could secure something suitable near places where there is work very quickly, my issue is that the narrative of "too much demand" and "soaring rents" etc is just overdone and not a true picture of reality.

Sarah1Mitty2

MultiFuelBurner said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

You are not a landlord @sarah1mitty2 from what I can tell.

The view is very different this side of the fence and it really is one of doom and gloom for renter's especially those on benefits.

As said in previous posts blame the rent reform bill for LL's leaving this section of the renting market on the shelf.

I am happy to see other LL posting on the forum sharing the same experiences we have had with demand for rented property and what they look for in renter's which they can pick and chose.

I can see you are passionate that rents will fall but sadly they will not whilst demand outstrips supply.

It really isn`t, read the last comment on the HA thread for example, trust me the doom and gloom is for people with residential and BTL mortgage debt in a rising rate environment, especially recent mortgage borrowing because the pace of rate rises has been extremely fast and the prices got SO crazy just before it all started to unravel, those with MULTIPLE BTL mortgages are far too exposed for this environment and a lot are going to be in trouble soon in my opinion. I know as a landlord you are tempted to believe the "supply and demand" arguments because it is a comforting thought, but it doesn`t really reflect reality, as with all investing when the facts or the reality changes you have to open your mind wide to the changes and the potential effects not shutter yourself in old ideology, however I hope it all works out for you because you sound like you treat your tenants very well.

You don't go into being a landlord or multiple BTL(if that's you business model) without the ability to sustain a bit of turbulence especially given the long period of low interest rates.

There are of course some short sighted BTL LL's that have not been chipping away at the mortgages or growing relying on a low interest rate but honestly they shouldn't be in the business anyway and their risk level was too high. What percentage of the market that is I would guess to be 5-10% as most LL's with multiple properties are 58years plus on the last statistics I read and risk adverse.

I don't have to "believe" the supply and demand theory as we live it as part of our business model we would drop rents if supply wasn't there but right now and for the foreseeable rents are on the increase.

Show me the facts and predictions that rents will fall in 2024 as we are already looking ahead to next year.l as every business should.

Nobody can predict next year but I will predict that if we get a recession (that is what they are trying to cause as the cure for inflation) rents will not be going anywhere, in fact they will be falling, and I have already posted an example of a room rate in a decent flat falling since November, there will be plenty more but you can do the research yourself with PropertyLog.

MultiFuelBurner

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

You are not a landlord @sarah1mitty2 from what I can tell.

The view is very different this side of the fence and it really is one of doom and gloom for renter's especially those on benefits.

As said in previous posts blame the rent reform bill for LL's leaving this section of the renting market on the shelf.

I am happy to see other LL posting on the forum sharing the same experiences we have had with demand for rented property and what they look for in renter's which they can pick and chose.

I can see you are passionate that rents will fall but sadly they will not whilst demand outstrips supply.

It really isn`t, read the last comment on the HA thread for example, trust me the doom and gloom is for people with residential and BTL mortgage debt in a rising rate environment, especially recent mortgage borrowing because the pace of rate rises has been extremely fast and the prices got SO crazy just before it all started to unravel, those with MULTIPLE BTL mortgages are far too exposed for this environment and a lot are going to be in trouble soon in my opinion. I know as a landlord you are tempted to believe the "supply and demand" arguments because it is a comforting thought, but it doesn`t really reflect reality, as with all investing when the facts or the reality changes you have to open your mind wide to the changes and the potential effects not shutter yourself in old ideology, however I hope it all works out for you because you sound like you treat your tenants very well.

You don't go into being a landlord or multiple BTL(if that's you business model) without the ability to sustain a bit of turbulence especially given the long period of low interest rates.

There are of course some short sighted BTL LL's that have not been chipping away at the mortgages or growing relying on a low interest rate but honestly they shouldn't be in the business anyway and their risk level was too high. What percentage of the market that is I would guess to be 5-10% as most LL's with multiple properties are 58years plus on the last statistics I read and risk adverse.

I don't have to "believe" the supply and demand theory as we live it as part of our business model we would drop rents if supply wasn't there but right now and for the foreseeable rents are on the increase.

Show me the facts and predictions that rents will fall in 2024 as we are already looking ahead to next year.l as every business should.

Nobody can predict next year but I will predict that if we get a recession (that is what they are trying to cause as the cure for inflation) rents will not be going anywhere, in fact they will be falling, and I have already posted an example of a room rate in a decent flat falling since November, there will be plenty more but you can do the research yourself with PropertyLog.

I want to know what industry experts are suggesting a fall in rents. I know the answer and it's none of them. All are predicting a rise in rents. You are going round in circles now providing no evidence to you theories.

A recession increases rental rates. Bourne out during the 2008 recession rents increased. We know this as we were in business then and a look at the records 100% occupancy and payment plus 3% rises across the board.

A single room let on property log or a few from every area in the UK is not statistical analysis and very very poor research and not evidence to support your views.