No invoice issued

mysterymum

I help at a charity which took some people on a trip in August 2017, they paid to go.  Despite being asked for an invoice the coach company has never issued one or asked for payment.  The coach company director used to be a helper with the charity so he may have donated the service but this has not been confirmed.  As the trip was nearly 6 years ago when can we return the money put aside to pay the invoice to funds.  And then should the participants be refunded for the coach travel or should it go into the charities funds?

pramsay13

Assuming you're in England the bus company have 6 years to chase payment so after that you will be free to retain the funds. 
However morally if you've used the service you owe the money and it will not look good for a charity to be relying on a technicality to get out of paying their debts.
If the money is sitting there and it won't cause financial difficulty to pay it why not just contact the bus company and get an answer?
If you decide to keep it you will again have the moral issue of putting it in choir funds versus returning it to the original payers. 

mysterymum

We have tried to pay but they keep putting us off which makes us think they don't want payment.
I think money should therefore be refunded but wanted to get others views as I am in a minority on the committee.
Thank you for you response.

DullGreyGuy

Under UK law the debt technically never goes away however the law of limitations gives you a statutory defence against any claim made against you that it is statute barred.  For matters arising in relation to contracts the statute of limitations is 6 years in England and Wales or 5 years in Scotland. The clock will have started ticking from the point that the monies should have been paid which depending on your terms could have been before the trip, 30 days after the trip or on demand.  

Only if your contract with them was for the later could there be complexity, if its a more normal contract or if there was no written contract then it'd be safe to assume that by the end of this year you'd have the defence. 

As mentioned though, it doesnt expunge the debt, just means they can do nothing to recover it. Its up to you if you still actually want to pay it or not.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

mysterymum said:

We have tried to pay but they keep putting us off which makes us think they don't want payment.
I think money should therefore be refunded but wanted to get others views as I am in a minority on the committee.
Thank you for you response.

Can you ask the people who went what their preference is, they might be happy to simply decline a refund so the money can benefit the charity.

Statute of limitations is 6 years in E&W (5 in Scotland) and the period begins at the earliest time legal proceedings could have begun, given the coach company knew payment was due it's most likely from around the time of the payment due date (or if none was set shortly after the service was received). 

Manxman_in_exile

If, as you say, you have tried to pay "but they keep putting [you] off", then after 6 years I would think the correct answer is

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

mysterymum said:

We have tried to pay but they keep putting us off which makes us think they don't want payment.
I think money should therefore be refunded but wanted to get others views as I am in a minority on the committee.
Thank you for you response.

Can you ask the people who went what their preference is, they might be happy to simply decline a refund so the money can benefit the charity...

If the participants on the trip paid specifically to fund that trip, then they should be repaid or at least be given the option either (1) to be repaid, or (2) to donate it to the charity.  Certainly if the charity had solicited donations from third parties specifically to fund the trip, then those donors ought to be offered the same choice - insofar as they could still be identified.

Do you know if the bus company director would expect the money to be retained within the charity if his company doesn't submit an invoice?  Is he aware that it probably ought to be returned to the people who originally paid to go on the trip?  If not that might be a complication...

But as your question isn't really about Consumer Rights, I'd expect you to get more informed and reliable responses if you posted (or asked your thread to be moved to) here:  Charities — MoneySavingExpert Forum

GrubbyGirl_2

Maybe is the statute of limitations has passed you should write to the bus company making one final offer to pay and give them 28 days to respond stating that if you do not get a response you will take that as confirmation that they do not want payment and therefore the money will be treated as a donation to the charity.  Make sure you put in all details about when the trip was etc etc so there is no confusion or ambiguity as to what you are trying to pay for.  Send recorded delivery so you can prove it was delivered and count the 28 days from the date of delivery.  If they don't respond then stop worrying about it

MSE_ForumTeam5

We've moved this to the Charities board

Manxman_in_exile

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

Maybe is the statute of limitations has passed you should write to the bus company making one final offer to pay and give them 28 days to respond stating that if you do not get a response you will take that as confirmation that they do not want payment and therefore the money will be treated as a donation to the charity.  Make sure you put in all details about when the trip was etc etc so there is no confusion or ambiguity as to what you are trying to pay for.  Send recorded delivery so you can prove it was delivered and count the 28 days from the date of delivery.  If they don't respond then stop worrying about it

That's a good idea but - and I don't want to overcomplicate this but I think the charity needs to get this right - I'm not at all sure the charity can unilaterally decide to treat the money in question as a general donation to the charity's aims.

If the original participants paid on the basis that their payment was specifically funding the trip and those payments have now become unnecessary because the bus company has never asked for payment, I think the money needs first to be offered back to the original participants, unless they are happy for the charity to keep the funds.  It's quite possible they will be happy to do so, but they need to be asked.  The charity can't just decide to keep the money for a purpose other than that for which it was given.

[Edit:  but the bus company probably need to know that is what will happen.  they might think that by not invoicing they are making a donation...]

Just my opinion - I'm not an expert in charity law but I think charities need to be careful that they follow it - whatever it is...

Manxman_in_exile

Just crossed my mind as it might be relevant.

Why did the participants pay for the trip in the first place?  Couldn't the charity pay for it out of charitable funds, or wasn't it within the charity's aims?

It seems to me that the complicating factor is that paticipants paid at all.  Was the trip for the benefit of eg disabled children or was it for the benefit of staff and/or volunteers?

GrubbyGirl_2

Manxman_in_exile said:

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

Maybe is the statute of limitations has passed you should write to the bus company making one final offer to pay and give them 28 days to respond stating that if you do not get a response you will take that as confirmation that they do not want payment and therefore the money will be treated as a donation to the charity.  Make sure you put in all details about when the trip was etc etc so there is no confusion or ambiguity as to what you are trying to pay for.  Send recorded delivery so you can prove it was delivered and count the 28 days from the date of delivery.  If they don't respond then stop worrying about it

That's a good idea but - and I don't want to overcomplicate this but I think the charity needs to get this right - I'm not at all sure the charity can unilaterally decide to treat the money in question as a general donation to the charity's aims.

If the original participants paid on the basis that their payment was specifically funding the trip and those payments have now become unnecessary because the bus company has never asked for payment, I think the money needs first to be offered back to the original participants, unless they are happy for the charity to keep the funds.  It's quite possible they will be happy to do so, but they need to be asked.  The charity can't just decide to keep the money for a purpose other than that for which it was given.

[Edit:  but the bus company probably need to know that is what will happen.  they might think that by not invoicing they are making a donation...]

Just my opinion - I'm not an expert in charity law but I think charities need to be careful that they follow it - whatever it is...

I wasn't referring to what the charity did with the money but how they should handle it with the bus company.  Once it's confirmed, either positively or by default because they did not respond, that the money does not need to be paid, then the charity needs to decide if it offers it back to the original payees, assuming they can be traced.