Bus lane fine with lack of location

The_stingemeister

Received in the post a fine for unlawfully driving in a bus lane. Although not long ago, don't remember it. I certainly wasn't expecting it and it was a complete mistake in a town I had never visited before. Having said that I'm not disputing it, it was in a town I had been in...thanks Google maps. But the letter I had been sent only had a street name, no postcode either, I actually had to Google it to find out which town the "offence" occured in. A massive long shot but could that be a technicality for getting off.

Just a side note here, but when searching for "bus lane fines" online  it amused that so many people went into great detail of why they should be let off for this act. Various reasons like only using it for 50 yards, it was midnight, did a wrong turn etc. They did know they had done it, whereas I had only a very vague recollection.

Car_54

What exactly have you received?
It's almost certainly not a 'fine' but a penalty charge notice. That may seem pedantic, but different rules and procedures apply. Whatever it is, the lack of location doesn't seem to have disadvantaged you.

The_stingemeister

[Deleted User] said:

What exactly have you received?
It's almost certainly not a 'fine' but a penalty charge notice. That may seem pedantic, but different rules and procedures apply. Whatever it is, the lack of location doesn't seem to have disadvantaged you.

It's a penalty charge notice. Don't know what "disadvantaged" means, odd comment? Just hoping for an unlikely  loophole. Thought it a bit odd that they didn't state which town the offence happened in. If I hadn't got internet access, I would have to buy an A to Z map book (if they still exist) to find out find where it was.

Car_54

The_stingemeister said:

[Deleted User] said:

What exactly have you received?
It's almost certainly not a 'fine' but a penalty charge notice. That may seem pedantic, but different rules and procedures apply. Whatever it is, the lack of location doesn't seem to have disadvantaged you.

It's a penalty charge notice. Don't know what "disadvantaged" means, odd comment? Just hoping for an unlikely  loophole. Thought it a bit odd that they didn't state which town the offence happened in. If I hadn't got internet access, I would have to buy an A to Z map book (if they still exist) to find out find where it was.

OK. If it had been a NIP (criminal offence), there would possibly be an argument that a vague location disadvantaged you, and rendered the NIP invalid.
However, it isn't a NIP. I'd suggest you post on pepipoo.com (in the council tickets sub-forum), where the experts might see a way out. Good luck!

TooManyPoints

Don't know what "disadvantaged" means, odd comment?

Bus lane enforcement is not my forte. But generally, legal proceedings have to be fair. When you are accused of something like this you are entitled to know where it it was alleged to have occurred so that you can check it out (properly signed, Traffic Order to enforce it, etc.). If you don't know where it was you can't check these things and so are "disadvantaged". You can try a challenge to the adjudicator on that basis but, as above, post it on Pepipoo first to get an opinion.

The_stingemeister

TooManyPoints said:

Don't know what "disadvantaged" means, odd comment?

Bus lane enforcement is not my forte. But generally, legal proceedings have to be fair. When you are accused of something like this you are entitled to know where it it was alleged to have occurred so that you can check it out (properly signed, Traffic Order to enforce it, etc.). If you don't know where it was you can't check these things and so are "disadvantaged". You can try a challenge to the adjudicator on that basis but, as above, post it on Pepipoo first to get an opinion.

I assume they think everyone has internet access, so can check. If I lived close to this town I would pay up straight away. But finding your way in a strange place is different to being a local. If I pay early, it will be "just" £35. Think that life's too short to challenge it.

user1977

The_stingemeister said:

TooManyPoints said:

Don't know what "disadvantaged" means, odd comment?

Bus lane enforcement is not my forte. But generally, legal proceedings have to be fair. When you are accused of something like this you are entitled to know where it it was alleged to have occurred so that you can check it out (properly signed, Traffic Order to enforce it, etc.). If you don't know where it was you can't check these things and so are "disadvantaged". You can try a challenge to the adjudicator on that basis but, as above, post it on Pepipoo first to get an opinion.

I assume they think everyone has internet access, so can check.

If you didn't have internet access, how would you have been finding your way around this strange town?

Car_54

user1977 said:

The_stingemeister said:

TooManyPoints said:

Don't know what "disadvantaged" means, odd comment?

Bus lane enforcement is not my forte. But generally, legal proceedings have to be fair. When you are accused of something like this you are entitled to know where it it was alleged to have occurred so that you can check it out (properly signed, Traffic Order to enforce it, etc.). If you don't know where it was you can't check these things and so are "disadvantaged". You can try a challenge to the adjudicator on that basis but, as above, post it on Pepipoo first to get an opinion.

I assume they think everyone has internet access, so can check.

If you didn't have internet access, how would you have been finding your way around this strange town?

Good question. How did we ever manage for centuries?

user1977

[Deleted User] said:

user1977 said:

The_stingemeister said:

TooManyPoints said:

Don't know what "disadvantaged" means, odd comment?

Bus lane enforcement is not my forte. But generally, legal proceedings have to be fair. When you are accused of something like this you are entitled to know where it it was alleged to have occurred so that you can check it out (properly signed, Traffic Order to enforce it, etc.). If you don't know where it was you can't check these things and so are "disadvantaged". You can try a challenge to the adjudicator on that basis but, as above, post it on Pepipoo first to get an opinion.

I assume they think everyone has internet access, so can check.

If you didn't have internet access, how would you have been finding your way around this strange town?

Good question. How did we ever manage for centuries?

I suppose if you didn't have a relevant street map, you could visit your local library. Though once you got there, you could also access the internet...

Anyway, while I feel strongly for the legions of internet-bereft (alleged) bus lane-drivers, the OP obviously isn't one of them.

Though generally yes, I would have expected to be told roughly where along a road the offence was meant to have taken place.

facade

Wasn't there a picture of your car bang to rights, or a link to a video showing the transgression?

There usually is as they use cameras to enforce bus lanes.

The_stingemeister

facade said:

Wasn't there a picture of your car bang to rights, or a link to a video showing the transgression?

There usually is as they use cameras to enforce bus lanes.

Yes, 3 photos with ones close up of the reg number. Three photos but didn't bother to tell me which town. If I pay on time the fine is reduced to £35, from £70. I haven't got an option of paying the £35, but also challenging the case, as payment closes the case.