Pension chat

VNX

RG2015 said:

@VNX

Nice one on the thread title change! 

Someone will probably moan now that its on the wrong Board. 

Well the thread after a handful of helpful replies has morphed somehow into a pension discussion so I thought I’d change the subject to a suitable title!

dunstonh

metrobus said:

francoghezzi said:

After I have read that pensions in Uk are very generous I asked for my holidays so I can go on laughing

Exactly these idiots should compare it to the rest of Europe where they retire earlier and get far more.
And it’s nothing to do with BREXIT it’s been the same for the last 25 years.

Comparing "state" pensions is notoriously difficult.   They are all different.

Take Germany, it has a much higher contribution than the UK.    However, in the UK, we use the private sector more for providing pensions.   So, if you take the cost of auto-enrolment and state in the UK and compare it to Germany, then it is broadly similar in terms of cost to the individual and outcome.

If you only look at state alone, then the UK costs less to contribute to but you get less.     

As with most things in life, things are not quite as simple as is often made out.

dealyboy

5.25% is likely to come soon but it will likely be an outlier, unless some significant world event occurs within the next couple of years.

There are three or four candidates that I think could upset the apple-cart but I would put it no higher than 20%.

LHW99

IanManc said:

Band7 said:

metrobus said:

francoghezzi said:

After I have read that pensions in Uk are very generous I asked for my holidays so I can go on laughing

Exactly these idiots should compare it to the rest of Europe where they retire earlier and get far more.
And it’s nothing to do with BREXIT it’s been the same for the last 25 years.

Goodness me, the claims regarding our state pensions get ever more bizarre. Comparing state pension amounts of totally disparate social security, health, social care and tax systems is comparing apples and pears.

To claim that “the rest of Europe retire earlier” is also demonstrably incorrect. Sure, there are some countries with lower state pension ages than ours but there are also some where it is higher. Pensioner poverty in many European countries is running at similar levels as in the UK.

According to this table, no other European country has a higher retirement age than 67. 34 European countries have a lower state pension age. Only five other countries have a retirement age of 67, and for people in the UK the current state retirement age of 67 for anyone born from 1961 onwards is jointly the highest in Europe.  For anyone in the UK born from 1978 onwards the state pension age is 68, making their current state pension age clearly the highest in Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_in_Europe

The research briefing I previously linked to in the House of Commons Library did compare the "totally disparate social security, health, social care and tax systems" of other European countries with ours, finding that the UK devotes a smaller percentage of its GDP to state pensions and pensioner benefits than most other advanced economies and that other countries have greater state provided provision for pensioners.

You seem to enjoy starting your contributions with your trademark "Goodness me" and "I'm afraid" patronising openings, and calling other people's opinions "a myth" or "bizarre" but that doesn't add any weight to your postings, which are, to coin a phrase "demonstrably incorrect".

There is however the aspect that retirement age does not equal state pension age in every country., as this article details

https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/04/06/pension-reform-in-france-which-countries-have-the-lowest-and-highest-retirement-ages-in-eu

We can access private pensions from 10 years below SPA, and could "retire" much earlier if funds / lifestyle allow, as some people on these boards appear to have managed. Autoenrollment is ensuring a majority will have more than just state pension to rely on in future, and may well be expanded further as the years pass.

RG2015

IanManc said:

Band7 said:

State pensions, social security provisions, health and tax systems are a lot more complex than unverified Wikipedia and a HoC Library paper which ignores a lot of data, such as the actual average retirement ages, and poverty levels across the population. Neither of those two sources will do an incredibly complex subject justice, and nor will an MSE Forum thread that has gone way off topic - not least because of me objecting to the myths and bizarre claims in some of the posts.

Really? You know more than A House of Commons Library research paper on the subject? That is truly laughable.

The two sources I quoted do "an incredibly complex subject" more "justice" than you have. All you have done is patronise other forum users and repeatedly called their postings "myths" and "bizarre" while completely ignoring any information provided to you to show you are wrong. Your response is the forum equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting "la-la-la-la I can't hear you".

And whingeing about the thread going off topic won't wash either. You have posted more off-topic contributions on this thread than anyone else. 

In these days of "fake news" and agenda driven news reporting it is good to have several points of information. Balance is my personal goal as all to often there is no right or wrong but merely shades.

The real problem arises when someone appears to claim that their view is the only view.

Sadly, these days, this results in extreme polarisation with a deafness that cannot be breached. 

Band7

IanManc said:

Band7 said:

State pensions, social security provisions, health and tax systems are a lot more complex than unverified Wikipedia and a HoC Library paper which ignores a lot of data, such as the actual average retirement ages, and poverty levels across the population. Neither of those two sources will do an incredibly complex subject justice, and nor will an MSE Forum thread that has gone way off topic - not least because of me objecting to the myths and bizarre claims in some of the posts.

Really? You know more than A House of Commons Library research paper on the subject? That is truly laughable.

Given that you know just about nothing about my knowledge about state pensions, you are clearly getting carried away by your emotions. I have no intention to entertain you further.

Albermarle

LHW99 said:

IanManc said:

Band7 said:

metrobus said:

francoghezzi said:

After I have read that pensions in Uk are very generous I asked for my holidays so I can go on laughing

Exactly these idiots should compare it to the rest of Europe where they retire earlier and get far more.
And it’s nothing to do with BREXIT it’s been the same for the last 25 years.

Goodness me, the claims regarding our state pensions get ever more bizarre. Comparing state pension amounts of totally disparate social security, health, social care and tax systems is comparing apples and pears.

To claim that “the rest of Europe retire earlier” is also demonstrably incorrect. Sure, there are some countries with lower state pension ages than ours but there are also some where it is higher. Pensioner poverty in many European countries is running at similar levels as in the UK.

According to this table, no other European country has a higher retirement age than 67. 34 European countries have a lower state pension age. Only five other countries have a retirement age of 67, and for people in the UK the current state retirement age of 67 for anyone born from 1961 onwards is jointly the highest in Europe.  For anyone in the UK born from 1978 onwards the state pension age is 68, making their current state pension age clearly the highest in Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_in_Europe

The research briefing I previously linked to in the House of Commons Library did compare the "totally disparate social security, health, social care and tax systems" of other European countries with ours, finding that the UK devotes a smaller percentage of its GDP to state pensions and pensioner benefits than most other advanced economies and that other countries have greater state provided provision for pensioners.

You seem to enjoy starting your contributions with your trademark "Goodness me" and "I'm afraid" patronising openings, and calling other people's opinions "a myth" or "bizarre" but that doesn't add any weight to your postings, which are, to coin a phrase "demonstrably incorrect".

There is however the aspect that retirement age does not equal state pension age in every country., as this article details

https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/04/06/pension-reform-in-france-which-countries-have-the-lowest-and-highest-retirement-ages-in-eu

We can access private pensions from 10 years below SPA, and could "retire" much earlier if funds / lifestyle allow, as some people on these boards appear to have managed. Autoenrollment is ensuring a majority will have more than just state pension to rely on in future, and may well be expanded further as the years pass.

I worked for a European based company and the large majority of my colleagues were not British, although a few were.
I would not pretend to understand the different state and company pension schemes in each country, but it seemed that many felt obliged to continue working until a specific age, or they would lose out significantly. Alternatively to retire early needed agreement/negotiations with the employers pension scheme. Although very few ever seemed to retire early.
It was quite a shock I think when I announced I was going to retire when I was 61, and that it was entirely my decision and no need to discuss any pension issues. Even more of a shock when a more senior UK manager followed suit at only 55. So I think for the better paid employees, who make the right pension provision, the UK has more flexibility?
On the other hand in this country if you do not ( or can not) make extra provision for yourself, you are probably in a  worse position than retirees in many other European countries.

Qyburn

IanManc said:

According to this table, no other European country has a higher retirement age than 67

That table gives retirement ages as of today's date, or in some cases as of a year or so ago. On that basis the UK age is 66. Nine countries are higher.

If you're looking at the "due to increase to" ages there are 10 due to increase to 67 or more. Not all forecasts out to 2046 are shown but there are already a couple of 68s and one 70 listed.