Mum in care home, limits on gifting

elsien

If you read the link posted above, one of the criteria about reasonable gifting is the gifts that the person used to make when they had capacity,.
Your “generous” implied that you’d gone rather over and above that. 

msb1234

elsien said:

If you read the link posted above, one of the criteria about reasonable gifting is the gifts that the person used to make when they had capacity,.
Your “generous” implied that you’d gone rather over and above that. 

This is how my solicitor explained it to me when I applied for COP. Basically, she said I should be able to prove that my stepfather regularly gifted us items to the same value as gifts I might give as his deputy. 

GaleSF63

Alfrescodave said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Alfrescodave said:

I had a similar situation with my Dad and made sure that birthday and Christmas cash presents from him to family members were "genereous".

If by that you mean you made gifts on his behalf well over what he would have traditionally given when he was capable, then you were wrong to do so. .

I didn't know that there is an official document that defines " amounts traditionally to be given as gifts!!!"  Please supply the link.

The term generous does not imply an excessive or unexplainable amount,

The tradition refers to your father's pattern of giving gifts, not universal.

RAS

Alfrescodave said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Alfrescodave said:

I had a similar situation with my Dad and made sure that birthday and Christmas cash presents from him to family members were "genereous".

If by that you mean you made gifts on his behalf well over what he would have traditionally given when he was capable, then you were wrong to do so. .

I didn't know that there is an official document that defines " amounts traditionally to be given as gifts!!!"  Please supply the link.

The term generous does not imply an excessive or unexplainable amount,

If dad had £100k and routinely bought the grandchildren a birthday and Christmas present both valued £100 each year, you'd be OK buying presents valued £110 this year.

If however, he bought them a £30 present at Christmas and gave them £20 cash for their birthday, you can really only give them £55 this year.

Buying them Christmas and birthday presents each worth £200 this year would be deprivation of assets.

Gavin83

elsien said:

If you read the link posted above, one of the criteria about reasonable gifting is the gifts that the person used to make when they had capacity,.

Out of interest would it make a difference if they still had capacity (and therefore made their own choices about gifting) but were in a care home?

bobster2

Gavin83 said:

elsien said:

If you read the link posted above, one of the criteria about reasonable gifting is the gifts that the person used to make when they had capacity,.

Out of interest would it make a difference if they still had capacity (and therefore made their own choices about gifting) but were in a care home?

Yes - it could make a substantial difference.

When using a POA or deputyship - the legitimacy of a gift depends on many things including past patterns of giving, is it a customary occasion, who is the recipient, affordability in relation to future care needs (i.e potential deprivation of assets).

However, if the person has full capacity - then it's generally only the last point (affordability in relation to future care needs / potential deprivation of assets) that is consideration.

Keep_pedalling

Gavin83 said:

elsien said:

If you read the link posted above, one of the criteria about reasonable gifting is the gifts that the person used to make when they had capacity,.

Out of interest would it make a difference if they still had capacity (and therefore made their own choices about gifting) but were in a care home?

It would likely to fall under deliberate deprivation of assets if such gifts would be likely shorten the time they could consider to self fund, but much depends on on their net worth. If my Scrooge had his skinflint ways changed while in a care home and decided to dole out large gifts for the first time in his life but left himself £500k to fund his care then that would be fine.

Linton

elsien said:

If you read the link posted above, one of the criteria about reasonable gifting is the gifts that the person used to make when they had capacity,.

Out of interest would it make a difference if they still had capacity (and therefore made their own choices about gifting) but were in a care home?

This would make a fundamental difference - as a competent adult the donor can make whatever choices they want as regards their money. If they act imprudently they have to accept the consequences.

An attorney does not have that freedom of action.  Their sole legal duty is to act in the interests of the donor, they do not have the authority to act in say the interests of the donor's family nor the donor's  potential beneficiaries.  Should an attorney wish to go beyond this limit (eg for estate planning purposes) they would need the approval of the Court of Protection.  There is the small leeway as regards gifts normally made by the donor.  But under normal circumstances I think it would be expected that such gfts are relatively small.