Mum in care home, limits on gifting

Kinclad

Hi there, 

I wonder if anyone could advice me on the following.. 

My mother is in a full time care home, she is suffering from dementia. She has around 24k in her current account. Her care is jointly funded by both herself and the local authority. This results in her account balance remaining reasonably static. (she has both a personnel pension and the state pension). 

My father has deputyship over my mums affairs and I have a brother.

Can my mother 'gift' any of her money to either/and my father/brother/myself on say a annual basis?

There has been no historical gifting, if that is relevant. 

I'm not suggesting that I have a desire to bleed my mother's account dry and leave it soley to the state to fund her, but at the same time if there is a reasonably small figure that would be acceptable, then that would be something of interest. (this would be something my mother would have wanted too). 

Thanks for any help

Mark

tetrarch

There is some definitive guidance about deputyship and gifting here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/giving-gifts-a-guide-for-deputies-and-attorneys

Regards

Tet

Keep_pedalling

Beyond normal birthday and Christmas gifts, no her deputies cannot make any gifts. 

Any gifts have to be declared on the annual deputies report so anything beyond the above is going to be picked up. 

elsien

If she was not in the habit of giving regular gifts when she had capacity, then as per the above link it’s probably a no. 

It’s hard to say it’s something your mum would have wanted when there’s actually no evidence to back that up. I’m not suggesting that what you are saying is incorrect But with no historical gifting and no LPA referencing regular gifts, your father would be on sticky ground to show that this would now be in her best interests.

Kinclad

Yes thanks for your reponses. I guess there have been historical gifts in the past, but they have been birthdays/Christmas and in cash. I have no idea of the dates/ammounts or proof. 

Tbh I'm also a firm believer also that we are all responsible for ourselves and that her money should be used for that and not be siphoned off and the tax payer pick up the expense. 

I guess my post was prompted by some costs associated with my daughter ie car, car insurance and these are the sort of sentimental financial gifts my mum would of helped with if she was of sound mind. 

Thanks 

msb1234

Don't forget that the savings your mum has will not be used towards care fees once they fall below £14,250.

Alfrescodave

I had a similar situation with my Dad and made sure that birthday and Christmas cash presents from him to family members were "genereous".

Spendless

Something my Mum did on the advice of some people she knew who worked in social care was to buy a funeral plan for Nan when Mum got LPA. That isn't classed as DOA (though please double check). You pay at tomorrow's prices, so when Mum purchased 8 years ago the price she paid was more in line with what you pay today for a funeral. . Nan died earlier this year at almost 99, after 8 years in a care home.  She was in the position your Mum is currently in, her funds from selling her property having got down to the amount where the LA contributed but didn't fully fund.

The cost of the funeral over and above the plan have been around £500 which included a small wake and also associated costs with having a stone with both my Grandparents names on (Grandad's having been in an urn for over 20 years).

If Nan had died earlier then yes Mum would have paid over the odds for a funeral, but that's the gamble you take. For us it's worked out because my Mum hasn't had to take much out to pay for funeral expenses which has left more for the beneficiaries of Nan's will.

That's possibly an angle for you to consider, though be careful as I believe in the past some weren't regulated. 

Keep_pedalling

Alfrescodave said:

I had a similar situation with my Dad and made sure that birthday and Christmas cash presents from him to family members were "genereous".

If by that you mean you made gifts on his behalf well over what he would have traditionally given when he was capable, then you were wrong to do so. You might have gotten away with it it but this is terrible advice for the OP especially as her finances are being controlled buy deputyship which has far greater scrutiny then LPAs do.

Alfrescodave

Keep_pedalling said:

Alfrescodave said:

I had a similar situation with my Dad and made sure that birthday and Christmas cash presents from him to family members were "genereous".

If by that you mean you made gifts on his behalf well over what he would have traditionally given when he was capable, then you were wrong to do so. .

I didn't know that there is an official document that defines " amounts traditionally to be given as gifts!!!"  Please supply the link.

The term generous does not imply an excessive or unexplainable amount,

bobster2

Alfrescodave said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Alfrescodave said:

I had a similar situation with my Dad and made sure that birthday and Christmas cash presents from him to family members were "genereous".

If by that you mean you made gifts on his behalf well over what he would have traditionally given when he was capable, then you were wrong to do so. .

I didn't know that there is an official document that defines " amounts traditionally to be given as gifts!!!"  Please supply the link.

The term generous does not imply an excessive or unexplainable amount,

You put "generous" in quotation marks - clearly to imply something.

If you didn't understand the rules - you shouldn't have been using your POA/Deputyship to make gifts.

Link earlier in the thread gives guidance...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/giving-gifts-a-guide-for-deputies-and-attorneys/opg2-giving-gifts-for-someone-else-web-version

Or this has more guidance on values...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/681929/Giving-gifts-practice-note-PN7.pdf