Help needed with N1 court money claim form please

Tara100

Hello. I'm just starting to fill out a paper N1 court money claim form.
(My claim can't be submitted online as it's for an 'unspecified amount')

I have a couple of questions please...

Money claim helpdesk sent me two copies of the N1, when three are needed (one for me, one for court, one for defendant)

I called them to check, BUT, then the advisor said I must write out one, then make two photocopies, stating they must 'look' completely identical.
I'd planned to exactly mirror handwrite the other two copies, as my printer is kaput. I can go to the library to make copies, but now I'm nervous about the right procedure.


Also, the claim is against a business trader. Do I write 'Trading as' ?

Made up example...

Person is called Joe Bloggs.
Business is commonly known as 'Frog Moon'
Companies house says the business is trading as a limited company.
Address is 10 Puppy Dog Road.

Is writing the defendants name and address like this acceptable?

Joe Bloggs, trading as Frog Moon Ltd
10 Puppy Dog Road


I don't want the court or defendant to reject the form 😊

Many thanks.

tightauldgit

1. I would fill out the form and then photocopy it twice as needed. You should be able to find somewhere that will copy things for you for a few pence - maybe your local library? 

2. The name you put is VERY IMPORTANT. You need to be sure of what you are putting. It needs to be the name of the legal entity you are claiming against so you need to know if they are a sole trader or a limited company or what. What you have put as an example doesn't look right to me - if you want to sue Frog Moon Ltd as a business then you put Frog Moon Ltd. Not a person. But you need to triple check who you are claiming against. 

Incidentally why is you claim for 'an unspecified amount'? Do you want to give us a bit more background?

GDB2222

If you just send the N1 form to the court without the two copies, do they send it back? Or do they make a couple of copies themselves?  

Tara100

tightauldgit said:

1. I would fill out the form and then photocopy it twice as needed. You should be able to find somewhere that will copy things for you for a few pence - maybe your local library? 

2. The name you put is VERY IMPORTANT. You need to be sure of what you are putting. It needs to be the name of the legal entity you are claiming against so you need to know if they are a sole trader or a limited company or what. What you have put as an example doesn't look right to me - if you want to sue Frog Moon Ltd as a business then you put Frog Moon Ltd. Not a person. But you need to triple check who you are claiming against. 

Incidentally why is you claim for 'an unspecified amount'? Do you want to give us a bit more background?

Hello. I've just realised things are messier than I thought re this form.

The claim is against a used car dealer, and I bought the car from their used car business premises.

The dealer is the owner and the business director.

Apparently, this dealer may not be the original purchaser of the car before me, as Trading Standards informed me that they sell vehicles for others, and he takes a percentage cut.

I've just spotted on gov uk company info, his registered address for the business does not match his current business address.

I believe he moved premises this year, and I guess he hasn't updated his details.

The dealer also owns a car repair business, and I was told I had to make payment to that bank account, rather than the bank account of the used car business where the car was advertised and sold.
Now I am unsure whether I state the physical business address that I bought the car from, or his other business address where I was told to send payment to.

The value amount is unspecified, as the reimbursement costs are going uphill, and I cannot say what they will be at the point of court hearing.

I hope I've made sense - my brain is cooked.

Thank you

tightauldgit

Tara100 said:

tightauldgit said:

1. I would fill out the form and then photocopy it twice as needed. You should be able to find somewhere that will copy things for you for a few pence - maybe your local library? 

2. The name you put is VERY IMPORTANT. You need to be sure of what you are putting. It needs to be the name of the legal entity you are claiming against so you need to know if they are a sole trader or a limited company or what. What you have put as an example doesn't look right to me - if you want to sue Frog Moon Ltd as a business then you put Frog Moon Ltd. Not a person. But you need to triple check who you are claiming against. 

Incidentally why is you claim for 'an unspecified amount'? Do you want to give us a bit more background?

Hello. I've just realised things are messier than I thought re this form.

The claim is against a used car dealer, and I bought the car from their used car business premises.

The dealer is the owner and the business director.

Apparently, this dealer may not be the original purchaser of the car before me, as Trading Standards informed me that they sell vehicles for others, and he takes a percentage cut.

I've just spotted on gov uk company info, his registered address for the business does not match his current business address.

I believe he moved premises this year, and I guess he hasn't updated his details.

The dealer also owns a car repair business, and I was told I had to make payment to that bank account, rather than the bank account of the used car business where the car was advertised and sold.
Now I am unsure whether I state the physical business address that I bought the car from, or his other business address where I was told to send payment to.

The value amount is unspecified, as the reimbursement costs are going uphill, and I cannot say what they will be at the point of court hearing.

I hope I've made sense - my brain is cooked.

Thank you

This IS sounding messy. Without wanting to scare you off pursuing it, if this is a fly-by-night used car dealer then you do have to be prepared for the fact that even if you get a CCJ against the business it may be really difficult to enforce it. 

At this point I want to be honest and say I'm out of my legal depth so I'm just offering my thoughts - because I'm torn between saying you should sue the person/business that invoiced you and you should sue the business/person you paid. 

Do you have any paperwork for the transaction? What does that say? What documentation do you have about the whole conversation on paying a different account? 

How much is the claim roughly? I feel like you might benefit from getting some advice from a solicitor to make sure your paperwork is right because if you get it wrong then you will end up with nothing and there aren't any second chances. 

Why are your reimbursement costs going uphill? You need to be careful to ensure that what you are claiming for is recoverable and not just your wishlist. 

I'm being honest with you when I say that as it stands I feel like there's a good chance you'll get this wrong if you don't get some proper legal advice. Those costs probably won't be recoverable so the question is whether its worth throwing a few hundred/thousand quid at a solicitor to help you here.

ETA: I re-read your post and I'm also wondering if he's just acting as an agent for someone else and you should be suing the actual owner of the vehicle. I'm genuinely lost at this point so I really think you need some proper professional advice.

Tara100

tightauldgit said:

Tara100 said:

tightauldgit said:

1. I would fill out the form and then photocopy it twice as needed. You should be able to find somewhere that will copy things for you for a few pence - maybe your local library? 

2. The name you put is VERY IMPORTANT. You need to be sure of what you are putting. It needs to be the name of the legal entity you are claiming against so you need to know if they are a sole trader or a limited company or what. What you have put as an example doesn't look right to me - if you want to sue Frog Moon Ltd as a business then you put Frog Moon Ltd. Not a person. But you need to triple check who you are claiming against. 

Incidentally why is you claim for 'an unspecified amount'? Do you want to give us a bit more background?

Hello. I've just realised things are messier than I thought re this form.

The claim is against a used car dealer, and I bought the car from their used car business premises.

The dealer is the owner and the business director.

Apparently, this dealer may not be the original purchaser of the car before me, as Trading Standards informed me that they sell vehicles for others, and he takes a percentage cut.

I've just spotted on gov uk company info, his registered address for the business does not match his current business address.

I believe he moved premises this year, and I guess he hasn't updated his details.

The dealer also owns a car repair business, and I was told I had to make payment to that bank account, rather than the bank account of the used car business where the car was advertised and sold.
Now I am unsure whether I state the physical business address that I bought the car from, or his other business address where I was told to send payment to.

The value amount is unspecified, as the reimbursement costs are going uphill, and I cannot say what they will be at the point of court hearing.

I hope I've made sense - my brain is cooked.

Thank you

This IS sounding messy. Without wanting to scare you off pursuing it, if this is a fly-by-night used car dealer then you do have to be prepared for the fact that even if you get a CCJ against the business it may be really difficult to enforce it. 

At this point I want to be honest and say I'm out of my legal depth so I'm just offering my thoughts - because I'm torn between saying you should sue the person/business that invoiced you and you should sue the business/person you paid. 

Do you have any paperwork for the transaction? What does that say? What documentation do you have about the whole conversation on paying a different account? 

How much is the claim roughly? I feel like you might benefit from getting some advice from a solicitor to make sure your paperwork is right because if you get it wrong then you will end up with nothing and there aren't any second chances. 

Why are your reimbursement costs going uphill? You need to be careful to ensure that what you are claiming for is recoverable and not just your wishlist. 

I'm being honest with you when I say that as it stands I feel like there's a good chance you'll get this wrong if you don't get some proper legal advice. Those costs probably won't be recoverable so the question is whether its worth throwing a few hundred/thousand quid at a solicitor to help you here.

ETA: I re-read your post and I'm also wondering if he's just acting as an agent for someone else and you should be suing the actual owner of the vehicle. I'm genuinely lost at this point so I really think you need some proper professional advice.

Hi again, and thank you for your replies.

I can't say too much about the case in a public forum, but I'm absolutely going through small claims. I've put too much in, time, emotionally and stress wise to back out now. I wish I could tell you all that's gone on, truly.

The dealer isn't a fly by night type like you mean, but I have found out others have had to involve Trading Standards and resort to court action, as he did the same to them .

If he'd accepted the car back under consumer law, (short term right to reject within 30 days) and reinbursed me for the couple of hundred I've spent proving the state of the car, then all would have been well.

He has a lot more to lose than me in many ways.

In the meantime, that car still has to be taxed and insured as it's parked on the highway. There's no where else to leave it, and it's not been driveable for weeks.

Alderbank

Tara100 said:

In the meantime, that car still has to be taxed and insured as it's parked on the highway. There's no where else to leave it, and it's not been driveable for weeks.

Who is the registered keeper?

There is always somewhere else to leave it. You can leave it on my land (for a fee!)

Tara100

Alderbank said:

Tara100 said:

In the meantime, that car still has to be taxed and insured as it's parked on the highway. There's no where else to leave it, and it's not been driveable for weeks.

Who is the registered keeper?

There is always somewhere else to leave it. You can leave it on my land (for a fee!)

I am the registered keeper.

There is no where else to park the car. I live in a terraced house on a main road. The car has to be parked on a road close by, and the car is insured under that street address ovenight and during the day.

I live in an area where there is literally no easy parking, it's difficult to park anywhere nearby.

My only other option is to have the car towed by breakdown to my daughter's house 30 miles away, and she can have the inconvenience of losing her driveway space for goodness knows how long, plus there will be costs to update the car insurance.

GDB2222

When you bought the car, was there an invoice or other paperwork, and did that name the seller?

Otherwise, was there a sign up with the name of the seller? 

Don't worry about which bank account you were asked to pay. 

If it was a limited company, don’t get sidetracked into worrying about who the owner is. It’s the limited company that you need to sue.

If necessary, you can name multiple defendants, but it’s best to sort it out clearly now. 

GDB2222

Check the gov uk companies website to see which other companies the directors are associated with. In particular, look to see whether they have a string of companies that have gone insolvent over the years. There’s no point suing a company that will just be closed down as soon as you get a court order against them. That is harder for the owner to do with a car sales company that has lots of stock, but some traders will hold the stock in one company and do the sales through another one that has no assets. 

Tara100

GDB2222 said:

When you bought the car, was there an invoice or other paperwork, and did that name the seller?

Otherwise, was there a sign up with the name of the seller? 

Don't worry about which bank account you were asked to pay. 

If it was a limited company, don’t get sidetracked into worrying about who the owner is. It’s the limited company that you need to sue.

If necessary, you can name multiple defendants, but it’s best to sort it out clearly now. 

Hello.

Both businesses are on the sales invoice.

It states the centre where the car was bought from, and my deposit cc receipt is attached to it, which states the same centre.

At the bottom of the page it says 'Business Account Details' with the other business name, stating 'Use car reg as reference' then their sort code / account number to make payment to.

The ltd company address online at gov uk doesn't match, because late last night I saw on their FB page that they moved addresses last July, but haven't updated details with companies house.

Thanks