Missold a car

charlottemcalpine00

Please can I have some advice on my car saga! Almost 12 months ago we bought a 2nd hand car (2017 ford focus) for £9000 from an independent dealer. We were assured it had never been in an accident, had been checked by the RAC and all was good. 

We just got it MOT and serviced as the 12 months was elapsing, and found out it had been in a major front end collision, and had a replacement front welded on (a cut and shut). We were never told this and would not have bought it if we knew. 

We want a full refund and are devastated that we have risked us and our 2 young children by driving a dangerous car for a year. The dealer was not engaging with our phone  call and has not responded to our email. What is the best way to go about getting our money back?

cymruchris

charlottemcalpine00 said:

Please can I have some advice on my car saga! Almost 12 months ago we bought a 2nd hand car (2017 ford focus) for £9000 from an independent dealer. We were assured it had never been in an accident, had been checked by the RAC and all was good. 

We just got it MOT and serviced as the 12 months was elapsing, and found out it had been in a major front end collision, and had a replacement front welded on (a cut and shut). We were never told this and would not have bought it if we knew. 

We want a full refund and are devastated that we have risked us and our 2 young children by driving a dangerous car for a year. The dealer was not engaging with our phone  call and has not responded to our email. What is the best way to go about getting our money back?

At the time you purchased the car - did you complete an online vehicle check in terms of history?

Alternatively - Did the dealer provide written proof of such a check?

If neither of the above - if you run a history check now - does it show that the car has got a 'category' warning attached to it for accident damage?

The dealer might have known about the damage, but the dealer may not have known about the damage - if it was done by a previous owner, the garage might not have been aware.

Did the car pass the MOT? Or was accident damage an MOT failure? Was it the dealer that arranged the previous MOT?

born_again

What sort of RAC check was it?
I would be looking at the T/C of the RAC check. 

But if it was a repair off the insurance books. Then it will never show up. Unless as your dealer has found by a physical check. Has it passed it's MOT? Meaning it is safe?

>driving a dangerous car for a year<
Forget that, as you had no problems. 

TBH, unless you can prove the dealer knew, then you do not have much chance of them refunding. Even if they did it would be less a years worth of usage.

tightauldgit

Have to disagree with the above two responses - if you buy a car from a dealer and they make the positive claim that it has never been in an accident then they have the responsibility for that and when it proves not to be the case later then the car is 'not as described'.

Do you have evidence that it was sold as 'never having been in an accident'? If so then I think you have a fairly strong claim.

cymruchris

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80026902#Comment_80026902

If the accident was not recorded, and happened prior to the dealer taking possession, then even if the dealer did do their due diligence by completing an online car history check, it wouldn't have flagged up anything untoward.

That's why I asked what proof the OP has in terms of the claim that the dealer said it was accident free. If the dealer stated they'd completed a full history check, but on completing that same check now the OP could see if it does have a recorded accident damage against it, then there might be cause for a claim.

If however there's nothing officially on record to say it's been in an accident - the dealer could claim they knew nothing about it (and it's possible they didn't) - although you would expect a dealer to know moreso than your average member of the public.

The RAC check may simply be a basic safety check - do the brakes work - are the tyres legal - again we'd need to know the detail.

tightauldgit

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80026939#Comment_80026939

Which if the dealer has said 'clear history check' or something might be an out for them. But if they've claimed 'not been in an accident' then a car that has been in accident is not as described. I don't think there's an out for the seller to say 'but i didn't know it had been in an accident' because if they can't be sure then they have no place to be making the claim that it definitely hasn't been.

By the sound of it, the issue doesn't seem to be a subtle one so I'm not sure how convincing a plea of an innocent mistake would be to a judge.

cymruchris

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80026997#Comment_80026997

Yes - that's why we need to know from the OP exactly what was said/written down/signed, what the RAC check was in more detail. With more information we can give clearer advice.

As I say - if it wasn't recorded - and the check came back clear when the dealer did it - I don't think there's any comeback on the dealer at all, as there's no proof they'd have known. (Yes you can argue a dealer should know the signs to look for in terms of accident damage, and ensure they sell decent cars - but if it came back electronically as 'all clear' - then that might be as far as they go before it goes through the sales process).

If however it was recorded as a cat A, B, S or N, , and the dealer said it's all clear, then there's a case I'm sure.

DullGreyGuy

Its exceptionally difficult to prove that something doesnt exist especially if you are talking about something as vague as "an accident". Are they truly trying to say no one accidently clipped a kerb, brushed past bushes or spilt a drink inside? I'd struggle to believe any 2nd hand car with more than a few thousand miles on the kerb hasnt had some form of "accident" happen to it.

As a professional dealer they do have a higher duty of care, a HPI check will see if its a write off is one thing (but that can be delayed being loaded depending on when it was written off -v- being sold to the dealer) but they should also be inspecting the vehicle and so it really depends on how obvious the repairs were.

tightauldgit

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80027039#Comment_80027039

I don't think generally the standard of evidence on these things is 'no proof they'd have known' though. They'd have to at least demonstrate they took all necessary steps to determine whether indeed it had been in an accident or not. They'd be expected to carry out some level of inspection on a car to determine that it's roadworthy and legal to sell. They also say an RAC inspection has been done so we'd want to see the report from that.

When it comes to misleading claims then the test of whether it is or isn't misleading is generally just one of fact - is the statement true or false. In this case the statement appears to be false based on what the OP has said, so the dealer is then going to have to provide a defence by showing they've done their due diligence before making the statement.

Manxman_in_exile

The OP is looking at buying a used car and asks the dealer "Has it been involved in an accident?"

The dealer says "No"

(Lets assume the above two sentences are not disputed)

The OP buys the car

The OP discovers it had been in an accident

Does it make any difference whether (a) the dealer honestly didn't know it had been in an accident and had answered the question truthfully or (b) the dealer knew it had been in an accident and had lied?

Either way the car is not as described.

Grumpy_chap

When I last traded a car in, which I accept was a good few years ago, the trade in paperwork included a declaration that I had to sign that the car had not been in an accident. I recall the Dealer thinking I was being particulalry pedantic because I added "to the best of my knowledge" or something to that effect. I could not have said more as I did not buy the car from brand new.

A Dealer can only do so much so they check the car was not recorded "Cat" damaged, they can obtain the declaration of no accident, they can look for obvious repair, but they cannot ever be absolutley positive beyond these reasonable checks. The "reasonable" is tempered by how much money they can spend between acquisition of a car and sale - many Dealers do work on very slim margins really.

Just looking on the WBAC site and the standard assumptions include:

"It has no damage, including interior or mechanical."

"It hasn't been declared as an insurance write-off or damaged in an accident."

It says to update the assumptions if these are not correct. I suspect, if you actually sell to WBAC, the standard paperwork you sign includes the above statements. I don't expect that the individuals viewing the car at the drop-off locations are qualified to assess whether a car has or has not been in an accident.

The devil lies in the detail of exactly what was said and what the RAC inspection was (who paid for that?). There is also the matter to which the now suspected "major colllision - replacement front" really means and the extent of any exageration for dramatic effect. I don't think that a Dealer can be liable for every accident on every car - in fact, buying a 5 yo car, I'd expect that there has been some bodywork damage along the way.

Did the OP do a history check prior to purchase? Does that offer any route for redress?