PCN issued by VCS at Leeds Bradford Airport

MRkSTL

Good morning everyone,

I would like to get an advice from you, even though it might be too late anyway as I appealed their decision and obviously it was rejected.

The reason for the Parking Charge Notice was that I stopped in the prohibited area. I hadn't been to Leeds Bradford Airport before that situation and I firstly stopped at the 1h free car park. Because the flight was delayed by over an hour, I had to move and wanted to park somewhere else, however while driving on the main road (Whitehouse Ln), I received a call from the passengers that they are ready to be picked up, so I set the direction on my sat nav to Pick Up/Drop Off. Because it was late (around 11:30 pm), I hadn't seen the signage of the pick up car park and it took me to the next road with signage Yorkshire Premier Club/Premium Short Stay Car Park. I also hadn't seen  signage that says you can't stop there even for a second and to be honest, I just checked pictures from VCN notice and pictures on Google Maps, and there is no such signage. There is double yellow line though. Nonetheless, after noticing that there is a gate in front of me (with a emergency vehicle access only) and on the left side at the entrance of the premium car park, I changed the directions and set off straight away. Obviously, I told VCN to check video footage to see that I reversed just after and didn't stop there for too long (perhaps a minute). Obviously, I can't reverse without stopping the vehicle, but at that moment, a picture was taken. 

With that explanation, that the signage was not sufficient enough and I didn't park there to wait for someone, but just to change the direction, my appeal was rejected and I still do not agree with them. 

I have also contacted the customer service of the Leeds Bradford Airport, however they replied to me saying that they don't deal with road management, so they can't do anything. 

I guess I will have no choice now, but to pay the charge?

Kind regards

Coupon-mad

No.  Please do not consider paying.  There is nothing to be gained by doing that.

You'll find from searching this forum for other VCS Airport threads that nobody pays VCS and they are easy to handle and win if they try a small claim.  No CCJ, no huge costs, no risk.

Have you read the NEWBIES FAQS thread?

MRkSTL

I've read a post about VCS parking notice, but that was before that person made an appeal. 
So I thought that if I made it already and it was rejected, there is no way to contact them any more.

I also contacted a solicitor on JustAnswer.uk and that's their response:

"You can ignore it but they will sue now. They used not to but they have become far more aggressive in recent years. As far as we can tell their policy is to sue in every case. However, that will take them about 2 years. 

At court it will be about £250-300 .

Im not immediately seeing a defence in what you have said so yes, probably better to pay." 

B789

Well you blew your golden ticket with your initial appeal. You revealed the identity of the driver.

Obviously, I told VCN to check video footage to see that I reversed just after and didn't stop there for too long (perhaps a minute). Obviously, I can't reverse without stopping the vehicle, but at that moment, a picture was taken.

If VCS didn't know the identity of the driver, they would have nowhere to go as airport land is not relevant land and liability wouldn't have been able to be transferred to the registered keeper under PoFA2012.Now you are going to have to battle as the driver which is more difficult to defend.

You must go and study the Newbies/FAQ thread and keep referring back to it every time you have a question. In the meantime, wait for the inevitable flurry of debt collector letters which you can safely ignore. When you get an LoC, come back and show us your defence.

Coupon-mad

Search again, you certsinly DO NOT PAY and there are hundreds if not thousands of VCS Airport threads at court stage!
Try searching

VCS Airport court claim

or

VCS Airport defence statement

Nobody here has paid them.

MRkSTL

so it's not like the solicitor stated, that if the appeal was rejected ,VCS will definitely take this case straight to CCJ? I still can defend it before things go serious?

Coupon-mad

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80026911#Comment_80026911

The solicitor certainly advised you wrongly, or more likely you misunderstood what a CCJ is (it's not a court claim). Of course you defend a claim and of course you can't just "get a CCJ" if you defend.

No CCJ is risked on this forum, ever, and we handle court claims every single day.

PLEASE do a better forum search and change 'best match' to NEWEST.

B789

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80026911#Comment_80026911

There is no way VCS or anyone for that matter can "take a case straight to CCJ". I'm not sure you fully understand the process as it is described fully in the Newbies/FAQ thread.

VCS, allege you owe them a debt. You don't actually have a debt. If they are so sure about that, then they have to issue a county court claim against you stating why you owe them that alleged debt. You still don't have a debt. After they issue a county court claim (ie. they are suing you) you have to acknowledge that they have a claim but you will be disputing it. You still don't have a debt. After you acknowledge the claim, you will be submitting a robust defence based on the template defence and other advice. You still don't have a debt. After you have defended the claim, the claimant will decide whether they want to proceed with the claim. You still don't have a debt. You will, eventually be given a date at a court local to you for a hearing where a judge will decide whether you have a debt. In the meantime, you still don't have a debt. Before the hearing, you will prepare your witness statement which expands on your defence and gives your side of the story and you attach your evidence to it and submit it to the court and the claimant or the solicitor if they're using one. You still don't have a debt. At any time up to the actual hearing itself, the claimant can decide to discontinue the claim, usually because they know that you are not one of the gullible ones who poop their pants at the mere mention of "court" and they know that they are quite likely to get spanked by the judge for bringing the claim in the first place and wasting the courts time. You still don't have debt. If it does go all the way to a hearing, the judge will decide whether you do indeed have a debt or not. If he decides you don't, then you definitely still don't have a debt. If he decides that you do, the judge will find for the claimant and order that you have a debt (the CCJ). You now have a debt but if you pay it in full within 30 days, the CCJ is expunged from your credit record forever and a day. Now your debt is settled.

daveyjp

OP- others will give solid advice, but you have my sympathy.

Leeds Bradford on site car parking is terrible to navigate, especially when it is dark. So many different car parks with separate entrances, too many signs to take in, you can't stop because of official red routes on the adopted highway and there are no escape routes if you take a wrong turn into the airport so you need to buzz or turnaround at the barriers.

I used it recently and since I booked the parking they have started building work so the entrance on one set of instructions and streetview signage is no longer accessible.

If they called car parks 'A', 'B' and 'C', or Red, Green, Yellow it would be simpler than premier, premium short stay, mid stay, mid stay 2, long stay etc etc.

steveaduk

I won against VCS a few years ago - I noted that the site signage (at an airport) contained 400 words, and at normal reading speed that would take around 5 minutes, and I was stopped for less than that. The signage was also next to the turn in off the airport road, and there's no way you can site there for 5 minutes whilst you read the tiny text.

Judge agreed, said the was no contract and dismissed the claim in an instant. The claimant's solicitor was huffing and puffing but the judge dismissed him, and also said they couldn't appeal.

Don't pay, hold your nerve, submit a defence with the template on this site, and add a few bits like I did.

MRkSTL

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80027008#Comment_80027008

It is terrible. I used Doncster Sheffield for several years before they shut it down and never had any issue with them. Unfortunately, LBA is the closest one now and I booked tickets for June, so will use them ,but I guess it's the last time (especially after the situation with VCS). If I intentionally stopped to wait for someone and hope nobody would catch me, I wouldn't even bother to seek for an advice on how to appeal the PCN. However those weirdly layed out car parks and unclear signange confused me and I turned the wrong road. Because there was a gate at the end of the road, I had to check the map and turn around. It was enough for them which made me mad and instead of seeking an advice first, driven more by emotion rather than common sense, I made an appeal. I also kind of hoped they would understand the whole situation and let it go, but I didn't know I was so wrong…

It's their response to my appeal:

"We refer to your appeal in respect of the above Charge Notice (CN) received on 03/04/2023.
Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our
main reason(s) for this decision are as follows:
The signs at the entrance to Leeds Bradford Airport and the access roads within, clearly state "No Stopping, Picking
Up or Dropping Off", giving clear notice that the land is private property and that a Charge of £100 will be levied if
vehicles do stop. The above detailed vehicle stopped in a zone where stopping is prohibited and the driver became
liable to pay that Charge.
In your appeal you have confirmed to us that on the date in question, you stopped your vehicle on the access road,
which is an area where stopping is not permitted.
We note your comment that you stopped to check directions; however as stated, the signs near to the location you
stopped clearly stated "No Stopping" and warned that if you did so, you were liable for the Charge displayed.
There are over 60 high profile signs advising drivers not to stop and warning that if a driver does stop, a charge of
£100 is payable. The signs exceed recognised industry standards, with some as large as 2m by 1.1m (6ft 6in by 3ft
7in) which clearly state "No Stopping, Picking Up or Dropping Off" alongside the nationally recognised Highway Code
symbol for a Clearway (No Stopping). Furthermore, the signage on the approach road is reflective and positioned to
face oncoming vehicles and the text size used is relative to the average approach speed of a vehicle in relation to the
speed limit in force at that location.
Signs on site clearly display a Helpline telephone number which is available for use by motorists who have any
problems or queries in respect of their use of the site. In this case the driver should have called that Helpline so that
arrangements could be made or advice given in respect of any problem they had.

We have fully reviewed this case and we are satisfied that the Charge Notice was correctly issued. We are unable to
accept the mitigating circumstances raised in your representations, your appeal is therefore rejected and the Charge
will stand; photographic evidence which supports this can be viewed at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk."

I wonder how I was supposed to write down a helpline number while driving…not to mention that I hadn't seen any.