Actions towards cowboy landscaper

Gilbs

Hello!

If I'm posting this in the area please let me know.

My parents appear to well and truly have had their pants pulled down.

So, back in summer 2022 my parents had their drive done in block paving. Fast forward to now and it’s started to sink up to around 20mm or more in some areas causing a lot of standing water.

I've now looked back at the original quote they sent over by email, they have quoted to excavate and lay 50mm base of compacted hardcore, then 40mm of sand, block then on top of this.

Having done some research and from my own knowledge, it should have been at a minimum 150mm of hardcore. This is the British Standard regulation and an industry wide standard.

My parents aren’t experts on landscaping at all and I don't believe it should be expected that they know about the amount of hardcore needed for a landscaping project. I would expect the contractor to be deemed the expert in this scenario. The contractor wasn’t the cheapest quote. He came recommended from some neighbors and has a good trust trust pilot page. They thought they were in safe hands but seemingly not. This was a pretty big investment for them and they don’t have much money so naturally I’m pretty fuming and would like to know what legal position they’re in.

They have let the contractor know and they have said they will come over and see if they can remedy this in the next couple of weeks. I believe the only acceptable resolution in this scenario is for all the block work, sand and hardcore to be taken up, the ground to be dug out the correct 150mm, and then it all relayed. I have a feeling they will just take up the area that's sank, add some sand, and relay it. Only for it to sink further over time. Therefore, I've asked my parents to ensure they find out what remedial work they are planning to do prior to letting them carry it out.

I would like to get a dispute resolution service involved but both BALI (British Association Landscape Industries) and the Dispute Resolution Ombudsman appear to be available for scenarios where the contractor is already a member of these associations and this contractor is not. Therefore... I'm struggling to know what services I can get involved.

So, does anyone know what resolution services I could contact? Does anyone know what steps they should be taking in this scenario?

If anyone could offer any advice I'd be really very grateful!

tacpot12

As they own their own home, the first thing to check is whether they have home insurance and whether it includes legal expenses cover. If it does, they can talk to the legal help line provided by their insurer. They should log that fact they they have this problem, and should agree with your suggestion of using a mediation/concilliaton service, and will support your parents if the case needs to go to court. 

In the absence of a scheme that the contractor is a member of, the next best thing is a mediator that you can both agree on. Finding a independent and local mediator such as this chap: Client/Contractor Mediator - GK Wilson would probably be the cheapest and therefore the most acceptable route.   

FreeBear

Gilbs said: I've now looked back at the original quote they sent over by email, they have quoted to excavate and lay 50mm base of compacted hardcore, then 40mm of sand, block then on top of this.

Having done some research and from my own knowledge, it should have been at a minimum 150mm of hardcore. This is the British Standard regulation and an industry wide standard.

150mm minimum of hardcore - Or more correctly, MOT1 or crushed rubble/concrete. A random pile of broken brick is not sufficient. 25mm of sharp sand (not soft or builders sand), then the blocks. The edging blocks should be bedded in on ~100mm of concrete unless constrained by a wall.

The Paving Expert is the go-to resource (in my opinion) for sound advice. They may also be able to offer advice and possibly a survey (for a fee) if this is likely to go legal.

GDB2222

The OP is making the assumption that there is an ombudsman or regulator that will step in and make sure the driveway is rectified. There isn’t. 

The OP's parents can take the firm to court, but it’s one thing to win the case in court, but vastly harder to get paid. If the contractor is a limited company, it is incredibly easy for the owner to wind the company up and start a new one. Even if the contractor was an individual, who is to say that he has any money? 

It gets worse! The quote was to provide 50mm of hardcore. Assuming that was done, there’s no grounds for suing, anyway. Your parents contracted for, and got, 50mm, and that’s what they paid for. Why should the contractor have provided more? Well, possibly, but it depends on what assurance was provided about the adequacy of the resultant driveway, and the op has not mentioned that any assurance was provided at all.

On a practical basis, if the contractor is happy to come back and add some more sand in the soft spots, that may be the best you can hope for. 

Gilbs

tacpot12 said:

As they own their own home, the first thing to check is whether they have home insurance and whether it includes legal expenses cover. If it does, they can talk to the legal help line provided by their insurer. They should log that fact they they have this problem, and should agree with your suggestion of using a mediation/concilliaton service, and will support your parents if the case needs to go to court. 

In the absence of a scheme that the contractor is a member of, the next best thing is a mediator that you can both agree on. Finding a independent and local mediator such as this chap: Client/Contractor Mediator - GK Wilson would probably be the cheapest and therefore the most acceptable route.   

This is fantastic. I didn't think of this. Much appreciated.

I'll also try and find some more local mediators. I've actually sent the one you mentioned a message so thank you!

Gilbs

FreeBear said:

The Paving Expert is the go-to resource (in my opinion) for sound advice. They may also be able to offer advice and possibly a survey (for a fee) if this is likely to go legal.

I've actually used this previously when undertaking my own work. I've sent a message directly to them to see if they have any advice. Thank you!

Gilbs

GDB2222 said:

The OP is making the assumption that there is an ombudsman or regulator that will step in and make sure the driveway is rectified. There isn’t. 

I don't make that assumption. I'm merely trying to understand if there are any professional services available that can advise in this scenario to give my parents the support they need. I don't know whether the driveway will or will not be rectified. I accept that they may be responsibile for sorting this themselves, however that absolutely will not stop me from trying every avenue possible to ensure the contractor is held responsible for ripping them off, and doing shoddy work.

GDB2222 said:

The OP's parents can take the firm to court, but it’s one thing to win the case in court, but vastly harder to get paid. If the contractor is a limited company, it is incredibly easy for the owner to wind the company up and start a new one. Even if the contractor was an individual, who is to say that he has any money?

Yes, I understand and accept all of this. So you think they should just give up? Absolutely not.GDB2222 said:

On a practical basis, if the contractor is happy to come back and add some more sand in the soft spots, that may be the best you can hope for. 

If that is ultimately the case then obviously we will have to accept that, but I'm most certainly not going to just accept this and will try to ensure the job is put right.

For this to be corrected properly, my parents would have to pay at least the same again and that's not something I'm currently willing to accept. I refuse to believe we all just have to roll over to cowboy traders.

GDB2222

You are not doing your parents a favour if you get them to launch futile legal proceedings, so you do need to think about the prospects of success, however annoyed you are by the contractors.

On a practical basis, can I ask where the standing water is coming from? I would expect it to drain between the blocks and down into the hardcore. Are you on clay below that, or why is the water not draining away? Have you effectively got a mini lake under the block paving? 

Section62

Gilbs said:

Having done some research and from my own knowledge, it should have been at a minimum 150mm of hardcore. This is the British Standard regulation and an industry wide standard.

British Standards aren't regulations.  They are however standards that some regulations refer to.  For example, if you want to manufacture and sell 13A plugs in the UK there are regulations that require them to comply with BS1363.

To the best of my knowledge there are no regulations that require a driveway to be constructed to any particular British Standard. BS 7533-101 is a code of practice for design.

This means if a contract specifically refers to BS 7533-101, for example a statement that all work is to be completed in accordance with BS 7533-101, then a contractural dispute can be raised if the work does not meet this standard.

However if the contract specifies something which is not in accordance with the BS the contractor is not obliged to carry out work to a higher standard than that they have been contracted to do.

Neither do "industry wide standards" mean very much.  Primarily because there is such a wide variation in circumstances and client needs.  What there are could be described as 'norms'.  You might expect a contractor - if nothing to the contrary is specified - to use 150mm of Type1 for a standard domestic driveway laid on well-drained soil with typical bearing capacity.  But this isn't a "standard" which the contractor must do.

The difficulty your parents would probably have in taking legal action against the contractor is that they were (presumably) not appointed as a designer, and therefore their liability for an error in the design/specification of the driveway is likely to be limited.

If a designer had specified 50mm of "compacted hardcore" then your parents could sue if they felt they could demonstrate this specification was the cause of the problems.  But a builder/landscaper providing a "quote" involving 50mm of compacted hardcore doesn't have the same professional liability.  They could argue this was only a suggestion (perhaps because that was what the client asked for*) and the client was responsible for ensuring the specification was suitable for their needs.

(*and if that is what the contractor says then could your parents prove otherwise?)

If you are considering legal action on behalf of your parents then tread carefully.  It is invariably stressful and frequently expensive.  And never predictable.

GDB2222

“ Yes, I understand and accept all of this. So you think they should just give up? Absolutely not.”

What do you think that they should do? There’s no point getting judgment unless they can enforce it. Suing a £1 limited company that will just be wound up is the worst of all worlds. You won’t be punishing the cowboy contractor, as it’s a half hour job to wind up the old company and start a new one. It is definitely better to give up, I’m afraid.

As it is, they may not be complete cowboys, as they are offering to come back and do at least some remedial work. They obviously won’t offer to dig the whole lot up and redo it, but it is possible that the worst of the settlement has taken place and adding some more sand will level the drive for a considerable time.