Kitchen Deposit - don’t wish to proceed

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

tightauldgit said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

The OP can break the contract.

The kitchen company can claim damages but for a consumer contract damages are limited to their actual costs incurred until the contract was broken.

I agree that the sensible thing for the company to do would be to rescue the contract by brokering a deal.

The CMA guidance says the trader may claim costs or they may claim loss of profits, there is an exception where they may not opt to claim profits if they find another customer (which they should try to do).

For leisure activities on a certain date or tradespeople who have limit space that's probably easier to quantify, however when it comes to suppling goods, such as a kitchen, what's the limit? Obviously a business has a capacity as to how many orders they can fulfil but I think it would very hard for the consumer to argue they should just sell the kitchen to someone else as there's a constant supply and that other customer might have purchased anyway.

If the company is fitting it as well then that element of profit could probably be off set by finding another customer. 

If we want to delve into the contract situation further then I'd say there either a) isn't a contract to break or b) it was already broken by the supplier anyway. According to the facts of the OP

1. OP and supplier contracted to supply a kitchen (with dimensions to be confirmed) at a given price
2. OP confirmed the dimensions and the supplier came back with a new price 

Surely 2 means that either the supplier has broken the contract in 1 or that there was never a contract in the first place and this new price is just a quote to the OP which they are free to reject.

I read as the OP effectively supplied incorrect measurements which didn’t account for the plastering.

I’m sure the company would supply what was discussed but that wouldn’t help the OP as it wouldn’t fit. 

I don’t know what happens when you buy a kitchen at a trade show as I’d expect a kitchen company to measure up in order to design the kitchen.

A charge for measuring up that is taken off the price of the kitchen if you go ahead would seem a clearer way of doing things but that charge would probably be less than a despot so there’s less to tie the customer in to doing the deal. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

OP can you post a photo of the paperwork (with your personal details blacked out)?

tightauldgit

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

tightauldgit said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

The OP can break the contract.

The kitchen company can claim damages but for a consumer contract damages are limited to their actual costs incurred until the contract was broken.

I agree that the sensible thing for the company to do would be to rescue the contract by brokering a deal.

The CMA guidance says the trader may claim costs or they may claim loss of profits, there is an exception where they may not opt to claim profits if they find another customer (which they should try to do).

For leisure activities on a certain date or tradespeople who have limit space that's probably easier to quantify, however when it comes to suppling goods, such as a kitchen, what's the limit? Obviously a business has a capacity as to how many orders they can fulfil but I think it would very hard for the consumer to argue they should just sell the kitchen to someone else as there's a constant supply and that other customer might have purchased anyway.

If the company is fitting it as well then that element of profit could probably be off set by finding another customer. 

If we want to delve into the contract situation further then I'd say there either a) isn't a contract to break or b) it was already broken by the supplier anyway. According to the facts of the OP

1. OP and supplier contracted to supply a kitchen (with dimensions to be confirmed) at a given price
2. OP confirmed the dimensions and the supplier came back with a new price 

Surely 2 means that either the supplier has broken the contract in 1 or that there was never a contract in the first place and this new price is just a quote to the OP which they are free to reject.

I read as the OP effectively supplied incorrect measurements which didn’t account for the plastering.

I’m sure the company would supply what was discussed but that wouldn’t help the OP as it wouldn’t fit. 

I don’t know what happens when you buy a kitchen at a trade show as I’d expect a kitchen company to measure up in order to design the kitchen.

A charge for measuring up that is taken off the price of the kitchen if you go ahead would seem a clearer way of doing things but that charge would probably be less than a despot so there’s less to tie the customer in to doing the deal. 

Well it's back to the old chestnut of what was actually said and agreed but the OP is at least clear that they believed they had provided approximate dimensions which the company said could be changed later. 

Provided the actual dimensions are within reason to the approximate dimensions given then I can't see that the supplier can change the amount charged. 

maisie_cat

Just a thought, if the required cabinets are narrower than the original they could be reduced. We bought a wider cooker and I reduced an adjoining cabinet by 100mm. Luckily it was a cheapo howdens unit, but even a solid wooden cabinet can be easily modified.

screech_78

mummystudent said:

tightauldgit said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

The OP can break the contract.

The kitchen company can claim damages but for a consumer contract damages are limited to their actual costs incurred until the contract was broken.

I agree that the sensible thing for the company to do would be to rescue the contract by brokering a deal.

The CMA guidance says the trader may claim costs or they may claim loss of profits, there is an exception where they may not opt to claim profits if they find another customer (which they should try to do).

For leisure activities on a certain date or tradespeople who have limit space that's probably easier to quantify, however when it comes to suppling goods, such as a kitchen, what's the limit? Obviously a business has a capacity as to how many orders they can fulfil but I think it would very hard for the consumer to argue they should just sell the kitchen to someone else as there's a constant supply and that other customer might have purchased anyway.

If the company is fitting it as well then that element of profit could probably be off set by finding another customer. 

If we want to delve into the contract situation further then I'd say there either a) isn't a contract to break or b) it was already broken by the supplier anyway. According to the facts of the OP

1. OP and supplier contracted to supply a kitchen (with dimensions to be confirmed) at a given price
2. OP confirmed the dimensions and the supplier came back with a new price 

Surely 2 means that either the supplier has broken the contract in 1 or that there was never a contract in the first place and this new price is just a quote to the OP which they are free to reject.

There isn't a contract to break as I haven't signed an order. Nothing has been ordered so there's no losses for them. There's been no site visit etc. 

Make no mistake about it, you do have a contract. You have paid a deposit, therefore you expected something in return. Contracts don’t have to be in written form. The problem is that it becomes difficult to prove what was agreed.

You also have no idea what losses they have incurred. They might not have any however your argument can’t assume that. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

tightauldgit said:

Well it's back to the old chestnut of what was actually said and agreed but the OP is at least clear that they believed they had provided approximate dimensions which the company said could be changed later. 

Provided the actual dimensions are within reason to the approximate dimensions given then I can't see that the supplier can change the amount charged. 

The company are allowing OP to change the measurements and indeed what was ordered as part of the kitchen but changing what was ordered would obviously affect the price, OP doesn't seem to have any issue with the price varying based on what they need, the issue is one of the trade show discount not being applied to any changes.

Hopefully OP can post a copy of their agreement so we can see exactly what was agreed.  

tightauldgit

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

tightauldgit said:

Well it's back to the old chestnut of what was actually said and agreed but the OP is at least clear that they believed they had provided approximate dimensions which the company said could be changed later. 

Provided the actual dimensions are within reason to the approximate dimensions given then I can't see that the supplier can change the amount charged. 

The company are allowing OP to change the measurements and indeed what was ordered as part of the kitchen but changing what was ordered would obviously affect the price, OP doesn't seem to have any issue with the price varying based on what they need, the issue is one of the trade show discount not being applied to any changes.

Hopefully OP can post a copy of their agreement so we can see exactly what was agreed.  

Well of course the OP can place an order for different things at a different price but that's not what they say they were sold at the show. They were sold an order (at a given price) that could be adjusted based on confirmation of dimensions. Unless the original agreement was that the price could change later then supplier has broken any original contract by changing the price. 

tightauldgit

screech_78 said:

mummystudent said:

tightauldgit said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

The OP can break the contract.

The kitchen company can claim damages but for a consumer contract damages are limited to their actual costs incurred until the contract was broken.

I agree that the sensible thing for the company to do would be to rescue the contract by brokering a deal.

The CMA guidance says the trader may claim costs or they may claim loss of profits, there is an exception where they may not opt to claim profits if they find another customer (which they should try to do).

For leisure activities on a certain date or tradespeople who have limit space that's probably easier to quantify, however when it comes to suppling goods, such as a kitchen, what's the limit? Obviously a business has a capacity as to how many orders they can fulfil but I think it would very hard for the consumer to argue they should just sell the kitchen to someone else as there's a constant supply and that other customer might have purchased anyway.

If the company is fitting it as well then that element of profit could probably be off set by finding another customer. 

If we want to delve into the contract situation further then I'd say there either a) isn't a contract to break or b) it was already broken by the supplier anyway. According to the facts of the OP

1. OP and supplier contracted to supply a kitchen (with dimensions to be confirmed) at a given price
2. OP confirmed the dimensions and the supplier came back with a new price 

Surely 2 means that either the supplier has broken the contract in 1 or that there was never a contract in the first place and this new price is just a quote to the OP which they are free to reject.

There isn't a contract to break as I haven't signed an order. Nothing has been ordered so there's no losses for them. There's been no site visit etc. 

Make no mistake about it, you do have a contract. You have paid a deposit, therefore you expected something in return. Contracts don’t have to be in written form. The problem is that it becomes difficult to prove what was agreed.

You also have no idea what losses they have incurred. They might not have any however your argument can’t assume that. 

Contracts work both ways though. if the supplier insists there is a contract then they should honour that agreement and price. 

If their argument is that 'well now you've told us the dimensions we have a right to alter our pricing', then equally once the buyer knows the true pricing they have a right to not go ahead.

But I'm basing that on what the OP has told us was agreed.   

Aylesbury_Duck

mummystudent said:

tightauldgit said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

The OP can break the contract.

The kitchen company can claim damages but for a consumer contract damages are limited to their actual costs incurred until the contract was broken.

I agree that the sensible thing for the company to do would be to rescue the contract by brokering a deal.

The CMA guidance says the trader may claim costs or they may claim loss of profits, there is an exception where they may not opt to claim profits if they find another customer (which they should try to do).

For leisure activities on a certain date or tradespeople who have limit space that's probably easier to quantify, however when it comes to suppling goods, such as a kitchen, what's the limit? Obviously a business has a capacity as to how many orders they can fulfil but I think it would very hard for the consumer to argue they should just sell the kitchen to someone else as there's a constant supply and that other customer might have purchased anyway.

If the company is fitting it as well then that element of profit could probably be off set by finding another customer. 

If we want to delve into the contract situation further then I'd say there either a) isn't a contract to break or b) it was already broken by the supplier anyway. According to the facts of the OP

1. OP and supplier contracted to supply a kitchen (with dimensions to be confirmed) at a given price
2. OP confirmed the dimensions and the supplier came back with a new price 

Surely 2 means that either the supplier has broken the contract in 1 or that there was never a contract in the first place and this new price is just a quote to the OP which they are free to reject.

There isn't a contract to break as I haven't signed an order. Nothing has been ordered so there's no losses for them. There's been no site visit etc. 

I'm afraid that's almost certainly untrue.  You've paid a deposit and a verbal agreement has clearly been made, so a contract is in place.  You don't need to have signed a piece of paper for a contract to exist.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

tightauldgit said:

Well of course the OP can place an order for different things at a different price but that's not what they say they were sold at the show. They were sold an order (at a given price) that could be adjusted based on confirmation of dimensions. Unless the original agreement was that the price could change later then supplier has broken any original contract by changing the price. 

The only way I can see this kind of set up working is, you order A,B and C at the trade show on the day, they come and measure, if after measuring it transpires that you actually need A, B and D they'll amend the order to swap C for D but I can't see any trader agreeing to do this without it affecting the price, as that would be very generous. Perhaps the agreement does state this can be done without charge, hopefully we'll find out