Kitchen Deposit - don’t wish to proceed

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Alderbank said:

The OP can break the contract.

The kitchen company can claim damages but for a consumer contract damages are limited to their actual costs incurred until the contract was broken.

I agree that the sensible thing for the company to do would be to rescue the contract by brokering a deal.

The CMA guidance says the trader may claim costs or they may claim loss of profits, there is an exception where they may not opt to claim profits if they find another customer (which they should try to do).

For leisure activities on a certain date or tradespeople who have limit space that's probably easier to quantify, however when it comes to suppling goods, such as a kitchen, what's the limit? Obviously a business has a capacity as to how many orders they can fulfil but I think it would very hard for the consumer to argue they should just sell the kitchen to someone else as there's a constant supply and that other customer might have purchased anyway.

If the company is fitting it as well then that element of profit could probably be off set by finding another customer. 

sheramber

Basically they were selling the units in the size  displayed, at 50% off- several orders so mass produced with less costs.

What the OP wants is not mass produced so full cost charged.

the OP has not stated that the company have refused to return the deposit.

tightauldgit

bris said:

tightauldgit said:

How much deposit have you paid? I think companies can only actually charge you for reasonable actual costs incurred but it might be a battle to get it back.

That's not true, it depends really on whether their is a right to cancel or not. Trade fairs for some traders may be deemed their place of business which has no right to cancel.

If the kitchen company only use  trade shows as a regular place of business then its their business premises.

On the other hand if they only do them now and then and they have a real place of business say in an industrial estate or high street store then it could be seen as a distance sale.

The ECJ have debated it and thats what they have came up with.

It would probably take a court case on a case by case basis.

But lets say the trade fairs are their place of business for arguments sake then their is no right to cancel and that could have more problems than just the deposit.

That's all very interesting but I never said they have a right to cancel based on distance selling regs.

I said they can cancel the order (breaking the contract) and the company should only be able to recover their costs - but it might end up in a court hearing, hence my comment on a potential battle.  

mummystudent

Aylesbury_Duck said:

EDITED TO ADD:  I've just realised you might mean they aren't discounting those two cupboards any more?

There was a similar question on here a while back, about a motorhome ordered at a show, and whether show premises constituted a "proper" shop or the sale was considered to be completed at a distance.  I don't think there was a clear consensus.  If it's considered a distance sale, you have an option to cancel without penalty.  If not, then you don't, unless there's something in the contract that allows you to.

So they've given a new price and those two new cupboards are over £1.5k more than the original price. I know it doesn't sound much but when every other tradesperson has come in over price and this is only the first half of the kitchen (there's another area to do next year and obviously I'll want it to match). 

I'll have a look for the motorhome thread and see if I can find any information about distance selling - thank you. 

The terms and conditions appear to be once the kitchen is ordered and I haven't done that - I've not ordered anything yet. 

Thank you for your time replying. 

tightauldgit

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

The OP can break the contract.

The kitchen company can claim damages but for a consumer contract damages are limited to their actual costs incurred until the contract was broken.

I agree that the sensible thing for the company to do would be to rescue the contract by brokering a deal.

The CMA guidance says the trader may claim costs or they may claim loss of profits, there is an exception where they may not opt to claim profits if they find another customer (which they should try to do).

For leisure activities on a certain date or tradespeople who have limit space that's probably easier to quantify, however when it comes to suppling goods, such as a kitchen, what's the limit? Obviously a business has a capacity as to how many orders they can fulfil but I think it would very hard for the consumer to argue they should just sell the kitchen to someone else as there's a constant supply and that other customer might have purchased anyway.

If the company is fitting it as well then that element of profit could probably be off set by finding another customer. 

If we want to delve into the contract situation further then I'd say there either a) isn't a contract to break or b) it was already broken by the supplier anyway. According to the facts of the OP

1. OP and supplier contracted to supply a kitchen (with dimensions to be confirmed) at a given price
2. OP confirmed the dimensions and the supplier came back with a new price 

Surely 2 means that either the supplier has broken the contract in 1 or that there was never a contract in the first place and this new price is just a quote to the OP which they are free to reject.

mummystudent

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Hello OP

As above I don't think there was a clear consensus either (@Manxman_in_exile in might remember better), have you checked the paperwork to see what it says about cancellation (for both you and the seller)?

If there is no right to cancel then you can breach the contract but would be liable for costs or loss of profit (but not both). 

How much was your deposit and how much was the kitchen? How much extra are these two units going to cost? Are the company doing supply and fit? Are these typical white chipboard units? If so they could probably be cut down and you'd just need the right sized doors. 

Is the only issue the units or are you have regret about the purchase in general?

Thanks

The contract is focused on cancelling AFTER an order has been placed, which I haven't done - I've not signed off on the order. Reducing the size of these two units will increase the price by over £1.5k. I know it doesn't sound much but when your budget has been annihilated it is a lot to reduce two units. They are just supplying, no fitting.

I think I'm a little tainted by how difficult they are being, that and I'm scared about how not one tradesman has come in at the price they quoted!

powerful_Rogue

How long ago did you place the order at the trade show?

You've got something if you've got a contract.

mummystudent

tightauldgit said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

The OP can break the contract.

The kitchen company can claim damages but for a consumer contract damages are limited to their actual costs incurred until the contract was broken.

I agree that the sensible thing for the company to do would be to rescue the contract by brokering a deal.

The CMA guidance says the trader may claim costs or they may claim loss of profits, there is an exception where they may not opt to claim profits if they find another customer (which they should try to do).

For leisure activities on a certain date or tradespeople who have limit space that's probably easier to quantify, however when it comes to suppling goods, such as a kitchen, what's the limit? Obviously a business has a capacity as to how many orders they can fulfil but I think it would very hard for the consumer to argue they should just sell the kitchen to someone else as there's a constant supply and that other customer might have purchased anyway.

If the company is fitting it as well then that element of profit could probably be off set by finding another customer. 

If we want to delve into the contract situation further then I'd say there either a) isn't a contract to break or b) it was already broken by the supplier anyway. According to the facts of the OP

1. OP and supplier contracted to supply a kitchen (with dimensions to be confirmed) at a given price
2. OP confirmed the dimensions and the supplier came back with a new price 

Surely 2 means that either the supplier has broken the contract in 1 or that there was never a contract in the first place and this new price is just a quote to the OP which they are free to reject.

There isn't a contract to break as I haven't signed an order. Nothing has been ordered so there's no losses for them. There's been no site visit etc. 

mummystudent

Thanks everyone - am doing a bit more research and try and engage with the director of the kitchen company. 

Alderbank

If you've just handed money over to them without any agreement for them to do anything in return it's called a gift.

If you gave them money and they promised something (anything) in return it's called a contract.

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