Am I Reading The TimeLine Correctly?

GroguEatsFrogs

Hi All

I have recently received a PCN from 3DParking alleging the driver did not pay for parking at Waterworld on 31/03/23. The driver did attend Waterworld and attempted to pay using a machine inside the building using their credit card and did not notice anything wrong when doing so but no receipt was issued by the machine. Upon receipt of the PCN the driver has checked the card statement and payment was not taken. 

The PCN has an issue date of 06/04/2023 and includes the usual 'offer' of a reduced payment of £60 if paid within 14 days going up to £100 after. Unfortunately as the keeper, I did not open the letter until Sunday (23rd) so am outside the 14 days.

I have read the Newbies thread which is incredible helpful but could I check a few things please? 

The final deadline to pay is 28 days, is this from the 6 April so deadline is 4 May or is it from 7 April (day after the date of issue) so will be up on the 5 May? Not that this matters too much as I am hoping to fight this but it would be useful to know.

I have sent an email to Waterworld as set out in the links from the Newbie thread stating I am complaining and want them to get 3DPArking to rescind the charge on the basis of the payment machine failed to take the payment. But this is just to a generic email at Waterworld as this was all I could find originally. I have since found an email address for the CEO which may or may not be valid but I will try it anyway! 

As this is a PCN through the post from an IPC member am I reading the advice correctly that it is also best to appeal to 3DParking through their online platform right now too?

Many thanks for your help! 

Umkomaas

The final deadline to pay is 28 days, is this from the 6 April so deadline is 4 May or is it from 7 April (day after the date of issue) so will be up on the 5 May? Not that this matters too much as I am hoping to fight this but it would be useful to know.

That's their deadline, you'd need to ask them, but wholly academic as you won't be paying them - surely - good! 

As this is a PCN through the post from an IPC member am I reading the advice correctly that it is also best to appeal to 3DParking through their online platform right now too?

You can do that using the initial appeal template (in blue text) to show you've tried to engage in getting them to cancel it, thereafter (if you don't get a landowner cancellation), ignore anything further unless you receive a Letter of Claim from the PPC's solicitors, or a County Court claim via the Northampton CCBC - come back on this thread if you receive either. 

Coupon-mad

Unfortunately as the keeper, I did not open the letter until Sunday (23rd) so am outside the 14 days.

That doesn't matter and isn't unfortunate.

The NEWBIES thread says in the early Q&A section that the 14 days is irrelevant to you.  There will be no point when you will be paying anyway.

What happened when you tried PLAN A?

GroguEatsFrogs

Umkomaas said:

The final deadline to pay is 28 days, is this from the 6 April so deadline is 4 May or is it from 7 April (day after the date of issue) so will be up on the 5 May? Not that this matters too much as I am hoping to fight this but it would be useful to know.

That's their deadline, you'd need to ask them, but wholly academic as you won't be paying them - surely - good! 

As this is a PCN through the post from an IPC member am I reading the advice correctly that it is also best to appeal to 3DParking through their online platform right now too?

You can do that using the initial appeal template (in blue text) to show you've tried to engage in getting them to cancel it, thereafter (if you don't get a landowner cancellation), ignore anything further unless you receive a Letter of Claim from the PPC's solicitors, or a County Court claim via the Northampton CCBC - come back on this thread if you receive either. 

That is really helpful thank you. I will definitely return if/ when I get any of those. 

GroguEatsFrogs

Coupon-mad said:

Unfortunately as the keeper, I did not open the letter until Sunday (23rd) so am outside the 14 days.

That doesn't matter and isn't unfortunate.

The NEWBIES thread says in the early Q&A section that the 14 days is irrelevant to you.  There will be no point when you will be paying anyway.

What happened when you tried PLAN A?

Thank you too, I only emailed the generic Waterworld email address on Monday and then email I found that may (or may not!) be for their Chairman yesterday. I will chase both if I don't hear anything in the next day or so and will take to social media if I don't get a response soon.

I just wanted to check that I should appeal to 3DParking now too or if it is best to wait until I hear back from Waterworld first. 

B789

GroguEatsFrogs said:

The final deadline to pay is 28 days, is this from the 6 April so deadline is 4 May or is it from 7 April (day after the date of issue) so will be up on the 5 May? Not that this matters too much as I am hoping to fight this but it would be useful to know.

Just submit your template appeal as close to the appeal deadline. It really isn't going to help you much as they are only trying to scam you out of your money. Obviously, for now, Plan A is your best bet but watch out for excuses from whoever responds from Waterworld about telling you that they can't help except to advise you to use the appeals process. You need to go as high as possible up the food chain. Quite often you will find excuses where they think the monkey outranks the organ grinder.

Having read the Newbies/FAQ thread, you must be aware that the "discount" you are offered is just a bribe for gullible victims to feel better about paying something to the scammers. The PPC would rather that than nothing.

GroguEatsFrogs

Hi Again, thanks for all the advice so far. I have not heard anything back from the landowner or Chairman (although I found his 'personal' web page today and have sent a message through this in line with Plan A asking for confirmation he will intervene and get the charge rescinded). I also have found his personal Twitter/ Facebook so will start commenting there if I don't hear tomorrow. 

In the meantime I will appeal the charge with 3DParking using their online appeal before the deadline just to show I have tried. I will use the TEMPLATE ''ONE SIZE FITS ALL'' FIRST APPEAL THAT DOESN'T SAY WHO WAS DRIVING  
text from the Newbies thread but I have looked at Schedule 4 of POFA 2012, paragraph 9 as it's a postal PCN only and I think the notice, redacted below (there is a second page but it is just about how to pay or appeal), does not meet the following requirements (bits I have bolded):

(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full; [I think the notice of 'Parking Tariff Not Paid' is too vague to meet this] 

(c)describe the parking charges due from the driver as at the end of that period, the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them arose (including the means by which the requirement was brought to the attention of drivers) and the other facts that made them payable; [I am reading this as the amount that should have been paid on the day for parking there, if this is actually referring to the changes they are now trying to make then this would be removed] 

e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

    (i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

    (ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;
[I don't think they have covered this explicitly in the notice]

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

    (i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

    (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, 

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
[As above, I don't think they have covered this explicitly in the notice]

Am I right?  If so, is it worth stating that the PCN/ NTK does not meet these specific requirements of the POFA 2012 in the appeal or am I overthinking this/ misunderstanding the requirements above/  making it too complicated? 

Once again, many thanks for the help it is very much appreciated! 

B789

You are correct in that their PoFA paragraph does not meet the strict requirements of the Act. The one size fits all template will cover the fact that you are appealing as the RK only.

They even state right above the date of issue "Liability for this parking charge notice lies with the driver of the vehicle". With a non PoFA compliant PCN, no matter how much they wish it were otherwise, they cannot hold the RK liable if they do not know the identity of the driver.

Coupon-mad

None of that matters because you won't win at appeal.  It isn't an appeal.  It is futile.

Then you ignore them.

You are also out of time by tomorrow if this is an IPC firm. They give a poxy 21 days.

GroguEatsFrogs

Thank you both, I won’t include anything extra in the faux appeal then!  

The NTK does say an “appeal” has to be made within 28 days from the date of the notice but I’ll get it done tonight just to make sure 

Fruitcake

Most IPC companies only allow a 21 day appeal window, hence C-m's comment. It appears that 3DParking are an exception to the norm and allow 28 days.

Just ensure you do not miss that deadline.