Civil Enforcement Ltd

outraged_

On their response to my appeal they named me on top of the company, but I certainly wasn't the driver and I can prove that, even though they are now suggesting that.

outraged_

I have tried to find template POPLA appeals here but for some reason I can't find one that fits my case. Can anyone help please? THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Fruitcake

There are a number of PoPLA appeal points listed in the third post of the NEWBIES.

These will normally include, where relevant: -

1) Non-PoFA compliant NTK/NTH
2) Not the driver/not the person who may be liable for the charge
3) Not the landowner
4) No standing to issue charges in their own name
5) Inadequate signage
6) BPA CoP failures


In your case, Point 1) will be non-PoFA complaint NTH. 

In the appeal paragraphs you expand on those headings where for 1) you state that the documents in paras 13 and 14 of the PoFA were not supplied, then quote the relevant PoFA wording of those paras.
Use words like, mandatory requirement and strict requirements.

Your point 2) will categorically state you were not driving and the hire company were not present at the material time so can have only named the hirer. To say anything else would be perjury should this charge lead to a court claim.

outraged_

They now replied to me with an actual email address. I think it's worth a shot to just reply to them before I go to POPLA. What do you think of this reply

Good Morning,

The original “appeal” was sent via the appeal channel on your website because there was no other way of corresponding with your company. It wasn’t intended to be an official appeal.

The initial response was sent based on the address shown in the PCN, which by a quick internet search, appeared to be a RingGo location belonging to North Warwickshire Borough council. In fact, it is impossible to know from the information provided where this exact location is, since there are numerous different car parks at that same address.

I put the reply in my name as the director of the company to which this PCN was addressed to. However, I was not the driver of that vehicle.

Upon checking the relevant legislation I would like to point out the following points:

1) I now understand that this was a non-PoFA (Protection of Freedoms Act 2012) complaint Notice to Hirer. The documents in paragraphs 13 and 14 of the PoFA were not supplied. Please see below excerpt of the relevant legislation and why this clearly does not comply as none of these documents were supplied:

(…)The notice to hirer must—

(a)inform the hirer that by virtue of this paragraph any unpaid parking charges (being parking charges specified in the notice to keeper) may be recovered from the hirer;

(b)refer the hirer to the information contained in the notice to keeper;

(c)warn the hirer that if, after the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to hirer is given, the amount of unpaid parking charges referred to in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)(f) or 9(2)(f) (as the case may be) has not been paid in full, the creditor will (if any applicable requirements are met) have the right to recover from the hirer so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

(d)inform the hirer of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;

(e)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment may be made; and

(f)specify the date on which the notice is sent (if it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).

(6)The documents mentioned in sub-paragraph (2)(a) must be given by—

(a)handing them to the hirer;

(b)leaving them at an address which is either—

(i)an address specified in the statement of liability mentioned in paragraph 13(2)(c) as an address at which documents may be given to the hirer; or

(ii)an address at which documents relating to civil proceedings could properly be served on the hirer under Civil Procedure Rules; or

(c)sending them by post to such an address so that they are delivered to that address within the relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (2)(a).

(7)In sub-paragraph (5)(d) the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—

(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the hirer about the notice or any matter contained in it; and

(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the hirer to independent adjudication or arbitration.

2) Despite the above, POFA 2012 Paragraph 9 is clear: your notice must state that the driver is required to pay the parking charge and is the only person liable for it. However, nowhere in this PCN there is any mention of driver’s liability. My company is de facto impossible to have been the driver and nor was the individual filling out the company appeal.  I was not the driver, I certainly wasn’t in that location on that day and I can prove that.

3) The photos you sent show no signage, nor does it adequately explain what the actual alleged infringement was: it says “payment not made in accordance with terms displayed on signage/permit holders only”. It can only be one or the other, is it non-payment or is it permit holders only?
4) There are numerous BPA CoP failures.

I understand your correspondence says we have exhausted all of the “appeal” avenues. Nevertheless, based on the above it is clear that this PCN is not valid and if this is taken to POPLA it is a clear win for our company.

I will also be seeking compensation for the admin and stress this has taken me to resolve this.

B789

You have obviously not read the PoFA 2012 Act properly. You are referring to PoFA para 9 when there is a whole section dedicated to hire vehicles. You must refer to PoFA 2012 Schedule4 para 13:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

Why are you bothering to write to the scammers anyway? You have the option to go straight to POPLA as you have been given a code. Just make sure that you make the correct references to PoFA as pointed out above.

outraged_

B789 said:

You have obviously not read the PoFA 2012 Act properly. You are referring to PoFA para 9 when there is a whole section dedicated to hire vehicles. You must refer to PoFA 2012 Schedule4 para 13:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

Why are you bothering to write to the scammers anyway? You have the option to go straight to POPLA as you have been given a code. Just make sure that you make the correct references to PoFA as pointed out above.

Did you not see my point 1 above ? It is all dedicated to hire vehicles...

So what you're saying is, don't bother with the other points, since paras 13 and 14 were obviously not followed.

I thought I'd give them a chance to cancel the whole thing without the need to go to POPLA, but is it better to just go as it's clearly non compliant and I have no chance of losing it?

Coupon-mad

Search the forum for keywords:

NTH paragraph 14 POFA POPLA

and you'll find a few good ones already written.  Also attach your proof that you were not driving.

outraged_

Coupon-mad said:

Search the forum for keywords:

NTH paragraph 14 POFA POPLA

and you'll find a few good ones already written.  Also attach your proof that you were not driving.

Sadly, I now realise my location history on google maps was turned off to prove I was not there... but really, if they had served the correct hire documents they would know who the driver is and I have no legal obligation to tell them either.

Coupon-mad

It's fine.  A POPLA appeal about "no enclosures with the NTH" works, as seen in all those successful POPLA NTH threads you found when you searched.

KeithP

outraged_ said:

Coupon-mad said:

Search the forum for keywords:

NTH paragraph 14 POFA POPLA

and you'll find a few good ones already written.  Also attach your proof that you were not driving.

 ...if they had served the correct hire documents they would know who the driver is and I have no legal obligation to tell them either.

Just two points on that...

1) they have not sent you the correct hire documents with the Notice to Hirer.

2) even if they had sent you the correct hire documents with the Notice to Hirer, how would they then know who was driving at the time? OK, the hire agreement may only name the hirer, but anyone whose insurance covers 'driving a vehicle not belonging to him' may have been driving at the time of the alleged parking event.