Eurocarparks - POPLA

Littlekay23

fisherjim said:

I'd pay the £20 I really don't think you will get anywhere

Already submitted the proof of payments so they’ve said I can’t pay the £20 now as I went to POPLA.

if they are expecting me pay anything they should be refunding me as well. As someone else could not pay and get the same charge. 

Also by going POPLA it only voided the £20. They’re saying £100. But no where in correspondence does it say it would be £100 as if you pay within Xxx time it’s suppose to be less. By going through a complaint procedure it in theory puts the time on hold to my understanding so they’d surely have to honour the two weeks payment thing anyway. 

It speaks about the original payment. But the original payment terms are paid within two weeks it’s XXX. 

I guess all I can do is try. It’s matter of principle really. 

Thank you xx 

fisherjim

Littlekay23 said:

fisherjim said:

I'd pay the £20 I really don't think you will get anywhere

Already submitted the proof of payments so they’ve said I can’t pay the £20 now as I went to POPLA.

if they are expecting me pay anything they should be refunding me as well. As someone else could not pay and get the same charge. 

Also by going POPLA it only voided the £20. They’re saying £100. But no where in correspondence does it say it would be £100 as if you pay within Xxx time it’s suppose to be less. By going through a complaint procedure it in theory puts the time on hold to my understanding so they’d surely have to honour the two weeks payment thing anyway. 

It speaks about the original payment. But the original payment terms are paid within two weeks it’s XXX. 

I guess all I can do is try. It’s matter of principle really. 

Thank you xx 

Oh yes too late for that.

I use one of these machines regularly and in winter the whole thing is slow, every often the VRN doesn't display quick enough and if you click the ok button it displays a short VRN.

It should not happen and let's be honest they could have the software/hardware to not accept shortened or incomplete VRN's or ones no on the access list. But that won't make scammers money would it.

Coupon-mad

But you can of course ignore Euro Car Parks.  Just ignore them and the laughable £170 debt demands. Nothing is likely to happen with ECP.

Same advice as this one today:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6420642/euro-car-park-pcn-first-appeal-rejected/p1

Sit tight if landowner complaint failed.

Littlekay23

How does this sound for my reply in comments to theres

‘ a major key error ‘ 

A key error can only occur when there are keys entered which are incorrect. If part of a VRN is inserted and those letters match part of the VRN then it isn’t a key error. As the letters match. Not inputting the rest of a VRN is not a key error as it’s not typed in to be a key error. 

I draw your attention to equality act 2010 

Where the first or third requirement relates to the provision of information, the steps which it is reasonable for A to have to take include steps for ensuring that in the circumstances concerned the information is provided in an accessible format.

The carpark in question does not provide signage in an alternative format such as audio. The machines do not have the ability to read out instructions therefore putting disabled people at a disadvantage. 

The car park isn’t accessible in general as they are no blue badge parking making it difficult for physical disabled people which I also am ( and was 8 month pregnant at the time ).

Therefore i believe euro car park is  discriminating against disabled people. Including all correspondence has not been offered in alt format. 

KeithP

Littlekay23 said:

The carpark in question does not provide signage in an alternative format such as audio. The machines do not have the ability to read out instructions therefore putting disabled people at a disadvantage. 

Be careful.

You seem to be describing a situation where a seriously visually impaired person has just driven a car into a car park.

Littlekay23

KeithP said:

Littlekay23 said:

The carpark in question does not provide signage in an alternative format such as audio. The machines do not have the ability to read out instructions therefore putting disabled people at a disadvantage. 

Be careful.

You seem to be describing a situation where a seriously visually impaired person has just driven a car into a car park.

Stating condition ( again to them ). Already pointed out the signage wasn’t clear to dyslexic people. Including their response. I doubt I can mention the car parking bay as it’s not about the pay it’s about the manor key error. But do you feel my point still stands it can’t be error if the key isn’t inserted. A key error is like inserting totally random information. That has no match to your VRN

KeithP

Littlekay23 said:

KeithP said:

Littlekay23 said:

The carpark in question does not provide signage in an alternative format such as audio. The machines do not have the ability to read out instructions therefore putting disabled people at a disadvantage. 

Be careful.

You seem to be describing a situation where a seriously visually impaired person has just driven a car into a car park.

Stating condition ( again to them ). Already pointed out the signage wasn’t clear to dyslexic people. Including their response. I doubt I can mention the car parking bay as it’s not about the pay it’s about the manor key error. But do you feel my point still stands it can’t be error if the key isn’t inserted. A key error is like inserting totally random information. That has no match to your VRN

But you seem to be suggesting that car parking companies should provide audio interpretation of their signs.
I'm just saying that that isn't necessary.
It is unrealistic to expect parking companies to provide 'audio signs' simply because there are very few drivers who suffer visual impairment such that they need such a thing. At least, I hope there aren't too many drivers who would find that sort of thing useful.

Let me clarify... audio signs are great and of course they are beneficial for people with poor eyesight. But I seriously hope that there are not many, or indeed any, people with such poor eyesight driving around. 

Fruitcake

I am still unsure what stage you have reached. You say you "went to PoPLA". Does that mean you have already appealed to PoPLA and are at the rebuttal stage, or that you have yet to appeal to PoPLA?

If you have yet to appeal to PoPLA, then use all the points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES.

These should include,

Inadequate signage

Faulty PDT machine/frustration of contract. Include fisherjim's comment that these machines have a known fault and sometimes there is a delay in displaying the full VRM that has been entered, and if the OK button is pressed before this, the machine displays and prints out a partial VRM, even if the full and correct VRM has been entered.

No breach of Ts and Cs. The full and correct VRM was entered. Showing machine logs of other partial VRMs is not proof that the driver did not enter their full and correct VRM. There is no proof that every other VRM entered was not corrupted by the machine.

An EA 2010 breach will not win at PoPLA, but that shouldn't stop you including it. This might apply if the signs were cluttered, have multiple different coloured fonts and backgrounds etcetera making it difficult for someone with dyslexia to read and understand the Ts and Cs.
Reasonable adjustments as defined by the EA 2010 would include plain and simple wording, without clashing colours etcetera.

If you want to keep the points about alternative formats such as audio signage, then refer to a failure to make reasonable adjustments for people with dyslexia and thus an EA 2010 breach rather than about poor eyesight.

Forget the idea that only pressing incorrect keys counts as a keying error.

Littlekay23

Fruitcake said:

I am still unsure what stage you have reached. You say you "went to PoPLA". Does that mean you have already appealed to PoPLA and are at the rebuttal stage, or that you have yet to appeal to PoPLA?

If you have yet to appeal to PoPLA, then use all the points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES.

These should include,

Inadequate signage

Faulty PDT machine/frustration of contract. Include fisherjim's comment that these machines have a known fault and sometimes there is a delay in displaying the full VRM that has been entered, and if the OK button is pressed before this, the machine displays and prints out a partial VRM, even if the full and correct VRM has been entered.

No breach of Ts and Cs. The full and correct VRM was entered. Showing machine logs of other partial VRMs is not proof that the driver did not enter their full and correct VRM. There is no proof that every other VRM entered was not corrupted by the machine.

An EA 2010 breach will not win at PoPLA, but that shouldn't stop you including it. This might apply if the signs were cluttered, have multiple different coloured fonts and backgrounds etcetera making it difficult for someone with dyslexia to read and understand the Ts and Cs.
Reasonable adjustments as defined by the EA 2010 would include plain and simple wording, without clashing colours etcetera.

If you want to keep the points about alternative formats such as audio signage, then refer to a failure to make reasonable adjustments for people with dyslexia and thus an EA 2010 breach rather than about poor eyesight.

Forget the idea that only pressing incorrect keys counts as a keying error.

I said no to the £20. Sent an appeal to POpla and the. ECP replied with the above info I screen grabbed and now I have to reply to that within 7 days ( by Wednesday ). With my comments. POPLA will then read information and reply to my understanding with an outcome 

Littlekay23

KeithP said:

Littlekay23 said:

KeithP said:

Littlekay23 said:

The carpark in question does not provide signage in an alternative format such as audio. The machines do not have the ability to read out instructions therefore putting disabled people at a disadvantage. 

Be careful.

You seem to be describing a situation where a seriously visually impaired person has just driven a car into a car park.

Stating condition ( again to them ). Already pointed out the signage wasn’t clear to dyslexic people. Including their response. I doubt I can mention the car parking bay as it’s not about the pay it’s about the manor key error. But do you feel my point still stands it can’t be error if the key isn’t inserted. A key error is like inserting totally random information. That has no match to your VRN

But you seem to be suggesting that car parking companies should provide audio interpretation of their signs.
I'm just saying that that isn't necessary.
It is unrealistic to expect parking companies to provide 'audio signs' simply because there are very few drivers who suffer visual impairment such that they need such a thing. At least, I hope there aren't too many drivers who would find that sort of thing useful.

Let me clarify... audio signs are great and of course they are beneficial for people with poor eyesight. But I seriously hope that there are not many, or indeed any, people with such poor eyesight driving around. 

From a dyslexic prospective - for instance mail I get in post is large font or I get it on a CD to listen to. Out and about I can use my phone which reads it to me. ( sadly phone www out of juice this day ). The signage on the machine also changes size when it refers to the step by step instructions. I can easily not cover this part. But in general their car park doesn’t even have accessible bays which is a disadvantage to disabled people. But obv it’s not about bay parking it’s about the reg and inputting details. 

Thank you so much for your feedback.