No contract pack received from seller solicitor after 6 weeks from offer being accepted

LuisaV

Hi all,
I hope someone here could advice on this awful situation we have been experiencing.
The Estate Agent recommended us to view a property, we weren`t keen on it initially, but it turned out to be the right one for us. It is a freehold, inherited, ex rental and vacant property, so no chain and no probate, we are first time buyers. The EA did not answer any questions we requested from the seller but because we liked the house so much we made an offer. It took them over 3 working days and a lot of prompting to tell us the offer was accepted.  Again, it took a lot of prompting for the EA to release the memo of sale( sellers chose the EA law firm and we provided ours on the same day our offer was accepted) and the EA did not mark the house as SSTC until we threatened to pull out after over a week. The memo they have sent was full of incorrect details, and as of today after 5 memo of sales they still did not get it right, but it is good enough for our solicitor to identify the seller`s solicitor so we haven`t bothered to try again getting it amended.
We arranged mortgage and survey a month ago, and it turns out the house has spray foam insulation in the roof so the mortgage offer is conditional of the seller providing paperwork and backed insurance warranty for the foam. EA is not giving any clarity on this despite us asking over and over, they do not reply to our emails but only called back us saying that this is a question for the solicitors and we are not sure whether they asked the sellers or not about this but they said that sellers did not live in the property so probably they are looking for it....... 
After over a month, we did not receive the contract pack, I contacted their solicitor and found out the seller did not instruct them. The EA said that  the seller had changed solicitor because they were keen to speed things up and even if this is causing delays in the long run it would be quicker process.
3 weeks and few memo of sales since they have changed solicitor and we are still waiting for the draft contacts. My solicitors said that the sellers` solicitor has informed them they are waiting for the sellers to submit the property information forms. The EA said that the sellers have submitted them on Tuesday this week but the solicitor was out of the office. Again, the EA did not reply to our emails but used telephone call to give us these communication. Obviously we are inclined to think the EA is lying but we do not understand why. We believe the sellers have all the intention to sell as quickly as possible, the house was vacant since last September and the sellers stopped looking after the garden since they have agreed the sale to us. 
We are obviously trying to look elsewhere but cannot find a house we like as much as this one so far. 
We just don`t understand what is going on and why it has been a constant struggle with this house since the very beginning and we are still sitting on "square one". 
Does anybody have thoughts on what it may be the issue? We know the sellers are brother and sister and the sister is less responsive than the brother. 
The spray foam is a massive issue, if they do not have the correct paperwork there is not mortgage and no sale, they must know whether they have it or not.
Please help!

user1977

Does anyone think it likely a suitable guarantee is available? I would be running a mile from such foam, no matter what paperwork existed.

Tiglet2

Sounds like the sellers don't know what they're doing.  Neither do they know much about the property, since I assume neither of them have lived in the property.  Does the sister actually want to sell?

They've changed solicitor and haven't completed and returned the property information forms.  I assume they may not have supplied relevant paperwork or ID documents either and so the solicitor has not started any relevant work.

The draft contract pack includes the property information forms so it sounds as though the solicitor is waiting for those forms before sending the pack to your solicitor.  They don't have to wait for the forms, but a lot of solicitors don't like having to do things piece meal as it is a better use of their time to send everything out in one go.

The EA won't have a lot of knowledge in connection with the spray foam insulation.  They are sales people contracted by the seller to sell the property.  They also represent the seller, rather than the buyer, so don't rely on their advice too much.  Once a transaction is in the hands of solicitors, the EA is not party to the correspondence between the sellers and buyers.  They can liaise up and down the chain but can only tell you what they are told (so Chinese Whispers/misinformation happens a lot).

The sales memorandum giving details of the seller, buyer and each party's solicitor is necessary but don't get too worried about spelling errors etc.  It is not a legal document but does need the name of the correct firm of solicitors acting otherwise correspondence and progress is delayed by writing to the wrong firm.

Within your survey will be a Section for your legal adviser (Section H?).  These are the legal issues that your solicitor will want answers to.  If there are also any areas of the survey which you want the seller to answer, then copy parts of the survey to your solicitor, who can raise an enquiry with the seller's solicitor.

housebuyer143

Don't go anywhere near spray foam unless your plan is to remove it. Who knows what condition the roof might be in. Even with the insurance I wouldn't buy it and you might have trouble reselling as some lenders won't touch spray foam insulation.

eddddy

LuisaV said:

Does anybody have thoughts on what it may be the issue? We know the sellers are brother and sister and the sister is less responsive than the brother. 

It simply sounds like they are not particularly motivated about selling.

Perhaps it's because the brother and sister aren't in full agreement about selling - so one of them is being 'difficult' about it.  Maybe one of them is hoping that if they keep being difficult, the sale will eventually fall through.

(You often see that with divorcing couples who are selling a property. I guess it's possible that a warring brother and sister would behave in the same way.)

LuisaV

user1977 said:

Does anyone think it likely a suitable guarantee is available? I would be running a mile from such foam, no matter what paperwork existed.

We are waiting to see if they have the paperwork, if they don`t we will ask for the foam to be removed and have a second survey carried out for possible damage to the timber frame. It doesn`t look like they have done a DIY job and our surveyor was not particularly concerned about damages rather than the issues with the mortgage.
Unless they have an insurance that will pay for damage in the timber we will request for the seller to take it down. 
I think I am hoping they do not have the insurance so they will be forced to take it down but who knows. 
 

ArbitraryRandom

LuisaV said:

I think I am hoping they do not have the insurance so they will be forced to take it down but who knows. 
 

Be prepared for them to refuse to take it down. They may (seem to be) in no hurry to sell so may decide to wait for a cash buyer. 

I would keep actively looking for less problematic properties, but if you are set on this one - Have you asked your solicitor/lender if an indemnity is an option? 

user1977

ArbitraryRandom said:

LuisaV said:

I think I am hoping they do not have the insurance so they will be forced to take it down but who knows. 
 

Be prepared for them to refuse to take it down. They may (seem to be) in no hurry to sell so may decide to wait for a cash buyer. 

I would keep actively looking for less problematic properties, but if you are set on this one - Have you asked your solicitor/lender if an indemnity is an option? 

An indemnity against what? I’m pretty sure insurers won’t want to underwrite the cost of removing this stuff.

ArbitraryRandom

user1977 said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

LuisaV said:

I think I am hoping they do not have the insurance so they will be forced to take it down but who knows. 
 

Be prepared for them to refuse to take it down. They may (seem to be) in no hurry to sell so may decide to wait for a cash buyer. 

I would keep actively looking for less problematic properties, but if you are set on this one - Have you asked your solicitor/lender if an indemnity is an option? 

An indemnity against what? I’m pretty sure insurers won’t want to underwrite the cost of removing this stuff.

As I understand it, the insulation itself isn't a problem for all lenders if installed correctly - the risk is that it was installed incorrectly and has caused damage to the roof. Hence it often coming with an insurance backed warranty. 

If the surveyor sees no indication it was installed incorrectly and there's no sign of damage, then I think it's worth checking if insurance can be secured retrospectively (via an indemnity). 

After all, the worst the solicitor can say is no, it's not an option... 

LuisaV

This is all very helpful, thank you all for the support!

My partner and I have different views, he is very concerned that the foam will cause issues in the future to re-mortgage. Since most lenders want to see paperwork rather that a flat no, I am more concerned about possible hidden damages because there is a lot of moss on the old roof. 
Because we have not even received the draft contract we haven`t even began to worry about options with the foam which is such a paradox. We are actively trying to find another property but we haven`t found anything we love as much or even close enough. We are doing viewings every weekend.

TBagpuss

f the house was owned by someone who has died, then it's highly likely that the sellers won't know a lot of things - unless their relative  / friend was very organised in relation to paperwork then they may well have no idea whether there are any guarantees or insurance or paperwork. It's extremely common in those situations for the property information forms to come back with lots of sections marked as 'not known'.

In addition, assuming the sellers are the executors then you may well have two r more people who may not live together so things may have to be passed around more than usual, and as they aren't selling their own home, they presumably have no linked purchase so while they may be keen to sell, it likely doesn't have the same urgency as if there were a chain.

I think you probably need to assume that you don't get any information about the spray foam and start deciding what that means. Are you going to look elsewhere, is there any form f insurance that might be available, can it be removed and if so at what cost ? and then decide how you want to proceed. 

The estate agents are highly unlikely to know anything, unless there were managing agents when the property was being let, and only then if the foam went in sufficiently recently for them to still have documentation / information about it. 

The agents only kow what their clients have told them, they have no specials knowledge or access to information beyond that, and you want any queries to go via your conveyancers in any event so they know what's happening and can advise.