£250 digital photo frame now needs subscription to work?

tightauldgit

Manxman_in_exile said:

I'll 'fess up immediately to not knowing what a "digital photo' frame" is - but I can guess.  (I also haven't a clue about consumer rights in relation to digital products and services).

So is it possible to buy a bit of digital kit that you think (or presume?) you own outright, but subsequently find you can't use because you are now being asked to pay a subscription to use it?

Would that possibility or condition not have to be something that you would clearly need to have drawn to your attention by the seller before purchasing?  (Perhaps it always is - I don't know as I wouldn't buy one.)

OP would have (I assume) signed up to some kind of service agreement with whatever app or software the frame uses at the time of installation which would spell out the terms. Had they refused the terms at that stage then they'd probably have been entitled to a full refund on the hardware.  

And it's pretty standard practice for those agreements to say something like the provider can stop or alter the service as they see fit. 

tightauldgit

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Terms covering this area may be unfair

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/schedule/2/enacted

A term which has the object or effect of enabling the trader to alter the terms of the contract unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract.

Section 5.21 of the CMA guidance covers this in detail 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450440/Unfair_Terms_Main_Guidance.pdf

The contract would have to be written very well to account for this change in fair manner. 

Is the service provider even in the UK though?

mr_stripey

sheramber said:

What do the  T& C for the frame say about being able to change the cost for the service?

well it's a bit ridiculous to even have T&C's for an item you paid outright for and has been functioning without any subscription for 3 years. 

OP is right to be peeved in my opinion.

You buy a digital photo frame outright and 3 years later they tell you you've got to pay to use it.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Terms have to be fair with regards to price amendments

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/schedule/2/enacted

A term which has the object or effect of giving the trader the discretion to decide the price payable under the contract after the consumer has become bound by it, where no price or method of determining the price is agreed when the consumer becomes bound.

A term which has the object or effect of permitting a trader to increase the price of goods, digital content or services without giving the consumer the right to cancel the contract if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded.

CMA guidance covers this in section 5.53

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450440/Unfair_Terms_Main_Guidance.pdf

The contract would have to be written carefully to account for this type of change. 

Undervalued

mr_stripey said:

sheramber said:

What do the  T& C for the frame say about being able to change the cost for the service?

well it's a bit ridiculous to even have T&C's for an item you paid outright for and has been functioning without any subscription for 3 years. 

OP is right to be peeved in my opinion.

You buy a digital photo frame outright and 3 years later they tell you you've got to pay to use it.

But did they? Yes they bought the hardware but no doubt the software aspect is licensed.

Or did they agree to a monthly service charge, initially set at zero but could be increased in the future?

As somebody else asked (and I don't think it has been answered) what were the full terms and conditions?

Manxman_in_exile

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Terms have to be fair with regards to price amendments

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/schedule/2/enacted

A term which has the object or effect of giving the trader the discretion to decide the price payable under the contract after the consumer has become bound by it, where no price or method of determining the price is agreed when the consumer becomes bound.

A term which has the object or effect of permitting a trader to increase the price of goods, digital content or services without giving the consumer the right to cancel the contract if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded.

CMA guidance covers this in section 5.53

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450440/Unfair_Terms_Main_Guidance.pdf

The contract would have to be written carefully to account for this type of change. 

Perhaps I'm missing the point, but what remedy does that leave the OP with, and against whom?

What they want is to view their photos.

Manxman_in_exile

tightauldgit said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I'll 'fess up immediately to not knowing what a "digital photo' frame" is - but I can guess.  (I also haven't a clue about consumer rights in relation to digital products and services).

So is it possible to buy a bit of digital kit that you think (or presume?) you own outright, but subsequently find you can't use because you are now being asked to pay a subscription to use it?

Would that possibility or condition not have to be something that you would clearly need to have drawn to your attention by the seller before purchasing?  (Perhaps it always is - I don't know as I wouldn't buy one.)

OP would have (I assume) signed up to some kind of service agreement with whatever app or software the frame uses at the time of installation which would spell out the terms. Had they refused the terms at that stage then they'd probably have been entitled to a full refund on the hardware.  

And it's pretty standard practice for those agreements to say something like the provider can stop or alter the service as they see fit. 

Thanks.

Then I'm grateful we've got in our home about 2000 books, 500 vinyl LPs, 100 or so singles, 500 DVD and innumerable CDs.  (Plus a few video and audio cassettes   )

[Edit:  I forgot the crates of printed photographs!

No wonder all our friends and neighbours can have immaculate minimalist houses...]

tightauldgit

mr_stripey said:

sheramber said:

What do the  T& C for the frame say about being able to change the cost for the service?

well it's a bit ridiculous to even have T&C's for an item you paid outright for and has been functioning without any subscription for 3 years. 

OP is right to be peeved in my opinion.

You buy a digital photo frame outright and 3 years later they tell you you've got to pay to use it.

You can never really own anything "outright" that relies on an ongoing service provision though.  

outtatune

Is this just a low powered Android tablet sold with custom firmware and a huge markup? It may be possible to install alternative firmware and use a free photo slideshow app. If it's a popular brand I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already done this just out of curiosity and posted instructions on Reddit.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Manxman_in_exile said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Terms have to be fair with regards to price amendments

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/schedule/2/enacted

A term which has the object or effect of giving the trader the discretion to decide the price payable under the contract after the consumer has become bound by it, where no price or method of determining the price is agreed when the consumer becomes bound.

A term which has the object or effect of permitting a trader to increase the price of goods, digital content or services without giving the consumer the right to cancel the contract if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded.

CMA guidance covers this in section 5.53

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450440/Unfair_Terms_Main_Guidance.pdf

The contract would have to be written carefully to account for this type of change. 

Perhaps I'm missing the point, but what remedy does that leave the OP with, and against whom?

What they want is to view their photos.

I would direct that question to the posters who told the OP to check the terms and ask what advice they would have given if the terms didn't mention it or weren't fair

A more serious answer, usually terms that are unfair are void so OP would not have to pay the £5.99 to use the goods as they were described. 

If they are unable to use the frame with more than 100 photos without payment the goods no longer match the description and OP would be entitled to reject them. (Of course the description of the goods comes in to play but unless they said in 3 years time you'll have to pay £5.99 to cycle more than 100 photos I don't see what could usually be said on Amazon product page that would cover this). 

One issue for the OP is who is the seller, if it was FBA with a seller in China then no rights to enforce anyway (or at best no one to enforce them against), if the seller was Amazon themselves then I doubt they'll get into all this but if OP complains to the right places they might get something labelled as "good will".