TfL plans to stop the paper One Day all zones Travelcard (and Travelcard add-ons to rail tickets)

MilesT6060842

TVM accessibilty (and issues using TVM and online)--back to my original point to make it possible to buy a ticket from a person at wide range of places other than a station (e.g. post offices, corner shops), before going to the station. 

Spoonie_Turtle

MilesT6060842 said:

TVM accessibilty (and issues using TVM and online)--back to my original point to make it possible to buy a ticket from a person at wide range of places other than a station (e.g. post offices, corner shops), before going to the station. 

I see your point but I'm not sure that would work for stations more out of the way, to have to add an extra stop at least, if not an actual detour (not just pop into a shop, but go out of the way, find parking, get out of the car, into the shop, likely queue because other people are using the shop for its primary purpose, buy the ticket, get back to the car before continuing - especially wheelchair users with the extra faff of getting their chair in and out) or if using public transport direct to the station (especially buses - many of the affected people will have a bus pass so they won't have had to buy tickets for that and adding an extra X minutes however frequent the bus is … I've got the train from plenty of places where it's one every hour or two).

Totally kills spontaneity, which nondisabled people have so why shouldn't we?  Why is it acceptable to place an additional barrier in our way to make train travelling more difficult than it already is?

Although I am painfully aware that this all may very well be rendered moot anyway.


Edit: I encourage you to read the open letter from Transport for All found on this page: https://www.transportforall.org.uk/campaign/ticket-office-closures/  where they clearly set out how TOCs' proposals still place a range of access barriers in the way of disabled people wishing to travel.

One section relevant to your own recommendation is this:

For many disabled people, travelling to another station* is not an option. Not only does this mean a disabled person spends significantly more time than a non-disabled passenger purchasing tickets, but for those with energy limiting impairments, or those who experience pain while travelling, this extra journey makes this a completely inaccessible alternative. This extra trip will also inevitably incur cost whether that is increased fuel costs or using public transport, and several train operating companies have not acknowledged this or offered any reimbursement or compensation for disabled passengers. 

[*or third-party vendor, in this discussion context]

A handful of operators do specify that if a customer is truly unable to purchase a ticket at a given station, they can board without one and make the purchase on board or at their destination. This suggestion assumes the first station is accessible and that a disabled passenger is able to board the train without assistance, which will not always be the case. Even where this is possible, there are additional barriers with this arrangement.

The first barrier is low awareness. Despite this provision already being included in most TOC’s Accessible Travel Policies, our research (currently unpublished) found that 70% of respondents did not believe the statement “if you are unable to purchase tickets at a station, disabled people can pay for tickets on the train or at their destination and cannot be charged extra for doing so” to be true (11% said false and 59% said ‘don’t know’). We know that this will not be a sufficient mitigation, because the policy has already proven to be insufficient. Furthermore, no TOC has outlined how they will raise awareness of this option. We have specific concerns for particular impairment groups. For example, many autistic passengers will interpret signs literally and follow instructions, so will be deterred by signage highlighting fines for boarding without a valid ticket. 

This will also put disabled people in a position of conflict. If staff find a disabled passenger on board without a ticket, it is likely that they will challenge the passenger, and potentially issue a penalty fare if they do not believe the person was unable to purchase a ticket at their origin station. This is especially likely to affect people with non-visible impairments, who do not “look disabled” to the member of staff. Transport for All’s research has found that disabled people already experience these kinds of confrontations:  

“We were coming back from Manchester and the wheelchair space in Standard class had been taken. So the person getting the ramp out put me in premier. When the ticket person came along they virtually accused us of fraud for not being in the right place for my ticket. When I pointed out I was hardly in a position to put myself where I was on my own he went off saying "I'll let you off this time.". His attitude was quite unnecessary.” 

 - Transport for All member 

Even the prospect of facing these interactions is likely to deter many from boarding a train without a ticket, even when they are explicitly permitted to by the Accessible Travel Policy. Those who experience barriers to communication (including people with a learning disability, anxiety, or who are autistic) are especially likely to be deterred.  

These access barriers will again leave many disabled people with no option but to travel to a different station to purchase their ticket or forfeit rail travel completely.

MilesT6060842

I wonder how much it would cost to make use of public transport free for the disabled?

Or the cost of subsidising / running a "paid for" monthly or annual pass for country wide local/regional travel (the €49 pm "Deutschland ticket" in Germany would be the model--that product is for all, not just disabled but there could be a more limited version for disabled and/or senior travel in the UK.)

Which would bypass the ticketing issue for many and is a better answer for society as a whole by promoting social inclusion.

Your comment about the challenges of getting a blue badge is noted, in that context.

Spoonie_Turtle

We don't necessarily need stuff for free though, but we do still need physical assistance (noting your previous comments about making better accessibility for blind/VI people - although that most certainly would not happen in time for when they want to close the offices and radically destaff a lot of stations.  The tactile paving aim for just the edge of platforms is 2025!).  There are many reasons the hashtag TfA are using is #NotJustTheTicket, which they explain much better than I can.

MilesT6060842

Of course the inappropriate pace of change is being driven by the election cycle and an impetus to reduce costs as soon as possible. 

There is also a tendency to focus on what is being removed rather than driving a holistically better outcome through the application of systems thinking, taking all needs into account, proportionately, and trying to avoid a "postcode lottery" of enablement as far as possible (which is what current availability of ticket offices creates)

There is a general societal question of whether people need to live where there is enablement or suffer the consequences, or whether enablement can come to where the person lives (breaking the postcode lottery). 
There is not uniformity or clarity currently in response to that general question.

And I think we have had a good discussion but I don't think we should take it any further.

Spoonie_Turtle

MilesT6060842 said:

And I think we have had a good discussion but I don't think we should take it any further.

Agreed, it's very off-topic!  But thank you for the thoughtful discussion