TfL plans to stop the paper One Day all zones Travelcard (and Travelcard add-ons to rail tickets)

MilesT6060842

https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/travelcards for the consultation I would suggest you provide an opinion to keep the travelcard (for what it is worth)

Paper travelcards are something of a niche product these days.  The concept is a paper ticket, available on the day, covering zones 1-4 (anytime pricing) or 1-6 (peak and offpeak pricing), underground, rail NR, XR, LO), bus, tram, with discounts on Thames Clipper River boat.

PAYG pricing with capping (Oyster or contactless) will always be significantly cheaper than a standalone travelcard (£15.20 is the cheapest), as long as you don't "miss" a tap in/out (getting a maximum fare or two which then needs a call to the helpdesk to resolve and get a future credit for Oyster or a refund on contactless).  No need to tap in/out with a paper card (e.g. if there is no gateline, only validators, or the gates are open, and no need to worry about pink validator tap to get best fare on some routes)

Bigger impacts that need to be challenged in the consultation:
[thanks to the Diamond Geezer blog for this summary]

Railcard users

• Railcard users currently get 1/3 off a One Day Travelcard making it much better value. They'll lose this perk and instead have to get their Railcard discount added manually to an Oyster card (which they might additionally have to buy). 
• Disabled Persons Railcard users can currently buy a discounted One Day Travelcard for an accompanying carer, but that'll no longer be possible.

Visitors travelling from outside London

• Nine National Rail companies currently allow passengers to buy a train ticket into London with a Travelcard add-on. This combined ticket would end, separating your travel into a rail ticket followed by PAYG. Not only is this more faff all round it could also cost a lot more - TfL give the example of a traveller from Brighton ending up paying £2 extra.
  [Travelcards bought as part of a rail ticket can be cheaper than PAYG--breakeven is something like 3-4 Zone 1 underground trips]
• Group Day Travelcards and Family Travelcards would also disappear and need to replaced by individual travel and individual PAYG. This would be a particular hassle for 11-16 year-olds who'd need to order a special Zip Oyster card weeks in advance [registration fee applies], or get a normal Oyster card and ask for a Young Visitor discount to be set on it, and you can just hear some families going "yeah, stuff that, maybe we won't bother coming".
  [And the congestion charge and potentially the ULEZ will means that driving isn't really an option either, or families will just use services like Uber or FreeNow increasing traffic congestion caused by that sort of taxi service)

https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/travelcards for the consultation.  You know what to do.

MilesT6060842

Simplest way to feedback is email direct to Haveyoursay@tfl.gov.uk, use subject "OneDay travelcards". 

Avoids having to register.

Spoonie_Turtle

Surprised this didn't get much traction, losing travelcards is a huge blow for our pockets and a huge barrier for people who struggle to work out the system.

Anyway, it's going ahead unless they find someone by January 2024 who can stump up c.£40m in funding to keep them.

https://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/publication/london-travelwatchs-response-to-tfl-proposals-to-withdraw-day-travelcards/

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/tfl-instructed-to-stop-selling-the-day-travelcard-64402/

[I did send feedback via the link on the TfL page and received a reply that it was 'engagement' with the public about plans, not a consultation to decide whether to do it or not.]

jon81uk

Not a blow for my pocket. On many of my journeys the travelcard is more expensive than the rail fare plus the TfL cap.

MilesT6060842

jon81uk said:

Not a blow for my pocket. On many of my journeys the travelcard is more expensive than the rail fare plus the TfL cap.

Well that's nice for you, but sadly I think you are in a minority. 

Lack of travelcard is a significant discourager to family leisure travel to London--increased cost and lack of certainty is not a good way to attract custom.

TheAble

MilesT6060842 said:

jon81uk said:

Not a blow for my pocket. On many of my journeys the travelcard is more expensive than the rail fare plus the TfL cap.

Well that's nice for you, but sadly I think you are in a minority. 

Lack of travelcard is a significant discourager to family leisure travel to London--increased cost and lack of certainty is not a good way to attract custom.

Quite. You used to have the car as an alternative at the weekends as well - no congestion charge, but sadly no longer. So this on top is another perk gone west...

jon81uk

MilesT6060842 said:

jon81uk said:

Not a blow for my pocket. On many of my journeys the travelcard is more expensive than the rail fare plus the TfL cap.

Well that's nice for you, but sadly I think you are in a minority. 

Lack of travelcard is a significant discourager to family leisure travel to London--increased cost and lack of certainty is not a good way to attract custom.

Then the situation needs solving as why should some journeys with a travelcard be good value and others not? Surely it should matter if you are travelling in from Sussex or Essex the uplift to add TfL travel on top of the train ticket should be a similar increase.

TheAble said:

MilesT6060842 said:

jon81uk said:

Not a blow for my pocket. On many of my journeys the travelcard is more expensive than the rail fare plus the TfL cap.

Well that's nice for you, but sadly I think you are in a minority. 

Lack of travelcard is a significant discourager to family leisure travel to London--increased cost and lack of certainty is not a good way to attract custom.

Quite. You used to have the car as an alternative at the weekends as well - no congestion charge, but sadly no longer. So this on top is another perk gone west...

Congestion charge has been going for 20 years, I very much doubt many families were driving into zone one of London even before the charge came into place.

MilesT6060842

jon81uk said:

MilesT6060842 said:

<snipped for brevity>

Lack of travelcard is a significant discourager to family leisure travel to London--increased cost and lack of certainty is not a good way to attract custom.

Then the situation needs solving as why should some journeys with a travelcard be good value and others not? Surely it should matter if you are travelling in from Sussex or Essex the uplift to add TfL travel on top of the train ticket should be a similar increase.

My understanding is the overwhelming majority of longer distance trips into London are cheaper on Travel card, and don't discount the comfort of simplicity and certainty of money spent as well as a benefit. 

Yes some trips that start in outer London zones might be cheaper, but what of that?  Travelcards still a benefit for a decent number of potential visitors, and this is why it is short sighted, discouraging UK tourism into the capital to benefit the "GDP" of the capital.

Yes there should be more tourism to the provinces, levelling up an all that, much to see out of London as well, and some useful one day/multi day unlimited "Rover" type bus and train tickets available in various regions to support tourism (and the lesser known "plusbus" scheme if travelling by rail), so why not London?

jon81uk

MilesT6060842 said:

jon81uk said:

MilesT6060842 said:

<snipped for brevity>

Lack of travelcard is a significant discourager to family leisure travel to London--increased cost and lack of certainty is not a good way to attract custom.

Then the situation needs solving as why should some journeys with a travelcard be good value and others not? Surely it should matter if you are travelling in from Sussex or Essex the uplift to add TfL travel on top of the train ticket should be a similar increase.

My understanding is the overwhelming majority of longer distance trips into London are cheaper on Travel card, and don't discount the comfort of simplicity and certainty of money spent as well as a benefit. 

Yes some trips that start in outer London zones might be cheaper, but what of that?  Travelcards still a benefit for a decent number of potential visitors, and this is why it is short sighted, discouraging UK tourism into the capital to benefit the "GDP" of the capital.

Yes there should be more tourism to the provinces, levelling up an all that, much to see out of London as well, and some useful one day/multi day unlimited "Rover" type bus and train tickets available in various regions to support tourism (and the lesser known "plusbus" scheme if travelling by rail), so why not London?

If its just about simplicity then the train operating companies and the department for transport just need to change the ticket to cost ticket to London plus TfL daily cap. That way they can pass the full value of the daily ticket to TfL and the full value of the train ticket to the train operator. If its about subsiding the cost of travel then the government need to be willing to actually subsidise travel. Whereas at present TfL aren't getting enough fare income to cover the costs and the government aren't willing to subsidise anything. So either increase the travelcard price so TfL get the same income they would if people paid directly to TfL instead of via the TOC or the DfT change the fare structure so there is a proper subsidy that is evenly applied rather than the travel card being cheaper on some routes than others.

Spoonie_Turtle

jon81uk said:

MilesT6060842 said:

jon81uk said:

MilesT6060842 said:

<snipped for brevity>

Lack of travelcard is a significant discourager to family leisure travel to London--increased cost and lack of certainty is not a good way to attract custom.

Then the situation needs solving as why should some journeys with a travelcard be good value and others not? Surely it should matter if you are travelling in from Sussex or Essex the uplift to add TfL travel on top of the train ticket should be a similar increase.

My understanding is the overwhelming majority of longer distance trips into London are cheaper on Travel card, and don't discount the comfort of simplicity and certainty of money spent as well as a benefit. 

Yes some trips that start in outer London zones might be cheaper, but what of that?  Travelcards still a benefit for a decent number of potential visitors, and this is why it is short sighted, discouraging UK tourism into the capital to benefit the "GDP" of the capital.

Yes there should be more tourism to the provinces, levelling up an all that, much to see out of London as well, and some useful one day/multi day unlimited "Rover" type bus and train tickets available in various regions to support tourism (and the lesser known "plusbus" scheme if travelling by rail), so why not London?

If its just about simplicity then the train operating companies and the department for transport just need to change the ticket to cost ticket to London plus TfL daily cap. That way they can pass the full value of the daily ticket to TfL and the full value of the train ticket to the train operator. If its about subsiding the cost of travel then the government need to be willing to actually subsidise travel. Whereas at present TfL aren't getting enough fare income to cover the costs and the government aren't willing to subsidise anything. So either increase the travelcard price so TfL get the same income they would if people paid directly to TfL instead of via the TOC or the DfT change the fare structure so there is a proper subsidy that is evenly applied rather than the travel card being cheaper on some routes than others.

Agreed.  Anything except taking away the entire scheme, which is simple and certain and much more user-friendly than having to pay multiple fares and work out London pricing (and having to acquire an Oyster card to get railcard discounts).

[My issues with removing travelcards are more about usability than cost, but initially only mentioned cost because of being on a moneysaving site.  Though I don't know who currently absorbs the railcard and GroupSave discounts; keeping them is important for people feeling able to afford to travel in for leisure.]

TheAble

Congestion charge has been going for 20 years, I very much doubt many families were driving into zone one of London even before the charge came into place.

Not on weekends until fairly recently. Anyway, separate issue I guess.