Fire escape ladder from 3 storey building conundrum.

tacpot12

If you go for the controlled descent device, you might consider buying a longer version if this means that the anchor can be sited in the best place. Even a timber stud wall can hold fantastic amount of weight if the weight is connected to the wall in the correct way. I would suggest that the best place to connect an anchor to a stud wall is at the bottom so that the connecting is made into the bottom plate of the wall. If you have a solid wall, then connecting the anchor low down but a little above the floor would make sense as the wall then has the maxium weight of masonry on it.

Fixing two anchors into the wall and having a webbing strap between them will increase the security of the connection as the load will be spread over a greater area. The webbing strap would remain connected at all times so that it is quick to attach the descender. The correct choice of anchor is crucial, and a local company that specialises in Working at Height should be engaged to install them. It's not a job for a local handyman. 

As others have suggested, you need to practice using the device. It needs to allow multiple uses so that you can do this. If it doesn't, call the manufacturer and see if they run a course where you have do a couple of practice descents. You should use a weighted bag to simulate your child. It might be harder to get out if you have to take your child for real, but not enough to materially increase the chance that you will not get out, if you have practised.

mrmagoo38

Its annoying, theyre like 5 times the price of a ladder.

GDB2222

mrmagoo38 said:

Its annoying, theyre like 5 times the price of a ladder.

If you want to save most of that money, you can buy a rappel device. It's basically just a harness, plus a ring that you thread the rope through.

Whereas the descenders are basically foolproof, rappelling most definitely is not. However, you could get tuition, and practise it. Once you know what you are doing, so you don't panic when the time comes, it's capable of being an awful lot safer than that ladder.

mrmagoo38

GDB2222 said:

mrmagoo38 said:

Its annoying, theyre like 5 times the price of a ladder.

If you want to save most of that money, you can buy a rappel device. It's basically just a harness, plus a ring that you thread the rope through.

Whereas the descenders are basically foolproof, rappelling most definitely is not. However, you could get tuition, and practise it. Once you know what you are doing, so you don't panic when the time comes, it's capable of being an awful lot safer than that ladder.

Good advice. Why dont they install ladders to the side of every high rise? Im sure there is a reason as usual, thieves etc, But id be willing to put up with the theft risk so long as we can escape our apartment.

Murmansk

Third floor is within easy reach of a fire service ladder. We spoke to the Fire Service about this and they said far better to wait for rescue by the fire brigade. 

Mistral001

mrmagoo38 said:

Section62 said:

mrmagoo38 said:

Me and my son live on the top floor (3rd floor) of a new build apartment building. We have recently moved in and i bought a fire ladder, this one:

Three storeys is a long way to fall, there is a high probability a fall from that height could be fatal to you and/or your son.

I can understand why someone might want an alternative means of escape, but beware of having something which is more likely to kill you than the smoke/fire you think you need to escape from.

If you really want to be safe get a professional to fit an appropriate means of escape with proper anchor points which have been proof tested.  Attempting a bodge could prove fatal.  Don't rely on something like a windowsill or possibly weak internal wall (especially not on a newbuild property) to provide adequate strength to support you and the ladder.  Also consider how difficult it is to climb out of a window onto a chain ladder, particularly if you are trying to do it in a stressful situation.

I get what you're saying, ive had those thoughts, but thanks. We'd only use the ladder as a last resort. The fire service are coming round this evening to do a requested safety check up. I will ask them about the ladder, the guy i spoke with on the phone from the fire service said that fires are usually designed to be contained to the flats when they occur and that they advise people to close all doors and go to the farthest room from the flats front door and await to be rescued. But i like to have some autonomy in these situations, i dont like being so dependant on other people, its just the way i am. Yes, the fall from that height would definitely be fatal, ive obviously looked down from the window, and as you say, it would certainly be fatal. But if the fire wasnt contained and spread (not impossible according to the bloke i spoke to) and the fire service were not quick enough to respond, id like to have another means of exit. The difference between 2 storeys and 3 is quite drastic, from 2 storeys you'd probably break a lot of bones and possibly be paralysed, but you have a 60% (guess) chance of survival i reckon. From 3 storeys, forget it, no chance.
So yeah, perhaps getting my money back for this thing and getting something better is the answer. I wouldnt trust my balance climbing out of the window with my 20kg son attached to the front of me (with the harness) as i navigate onto a ladder 3 storeys up and attached to a window sill.
Yeah, no...

I think I heard that somewhere before. Think West London block of flats and 2017. 

I remember being in the top storey of a three storey student accommodation owned by the university and there was a substantial rope ladder rolled up beside the window and fixed to the floor.  We had a fire in the house that year.  I was sleeping in my bed at 3.00am when I woke up to see that the light coming through the window from the street light was was actually a smokey shaft of light.  I was aboout 5 minutes away from being trapped in the room as the staircase was already full of smoke.  I think I would have taken my chance with the ladder.  The Fire Brigade  took a little longer than 5 minutes to get there.

GDB2222

Mistral001 said:

mrmagoo38 said:

Section62 said:

mrmagoo38 said:

Me and my son live on the top floor (3rd floor) of a new build apartment building. We have recently moved in and i bought a fire ladder, this one:

Three storeys is a long way to fall, there is a high probability a fall from that height could be fatal to you and/or your son.

I can understand why someone might want an alternative means of escape, but beware of having something which is more likely to kill you than the smoke/fire you think you need to escape from.

If you really want to be safe get a professional to fit an appropriate means of escape with proper anchor points which have been proof tested.  Attempting a bodge could prove fatal.  Don't rely on something like a windowsill or possibly weak internal wall (especially not on a newbuild property) to provide adequate strength to support you and the ladder.  Also consider how difficult it is to climb out of a window onto a chain ladder, particularly if you are trying to do it in a stressful situation.

I get what you're saying, ive had those thoughts, but thanks. We'd only use the ladder as a last resort. The fire service are coming round this evening to do a requested safety check up. I will ask them about the ladder, the guy i spoke with on the phone from the fire service said that fires are usually designed to be contained to the flats when they occur and that they advise people to close all doors and go to the farthest room from the flats front door and await to be rescued. But i like to have some autonomy in these situations, i dont like being so dependant on other people, its just the way i am. Yes, the fall from that height would definitely be fatal, ive obviously looked down from the window, and as you say, it would certainly be fatal. But if the fire wasnt contained and spread (not impossible according to the bloke i spoke to) and the fire service were not quick enough to respond, id like to have another means of exit. The difference between 2 storeys and 3 is quite drastic, from 2 storeys you'd probably break a lot of bones and possibly be paralysed, but you have a 60% (guess) chance of survival i reckon. From 3 storeys, forget it, no chance.
So yeah, perhaps getting my money back for this thing and getting something better is the answer. I wouldnt trust my balance climbing out of the window with my 20kg son attached to the front of me (with the harness) as i navigate onto a ladder 3 storeys up and attached to a window sill.
Yeah, no...

I think I heard that somewhere before. Think West London block of flats and 2017. 

I remember being in the top storey of a three storey student accommodation owned by the university and there was a substantial rope ladder rolled up beside the window and fixed to the floor.  We had a fire in the house that year.  I was sleeping in my bed at 3.00am when I woke up to see that the light coming through the window from the street light was was actually a smokey shaft of light.  I was aboout 5 minutes away from being trapped in the room as the staircase was already full of smoke.  I think I would have taken my chance with the ladder.  The Fire Brigade  took a little longer than 5 minutes to get there.

That's very frightening. I take it that you went down the main stairs, rather than waiting to be rescued?

JohnJ76

mrmagoo38 said:

GDB2222 said:

mrmagoo38 said:

Its annoying, theyre like 5 times the price of a ladder.

If you want to save most of that money, you can buy a rappel device. It's basically just a harness, plus a ring that you thread the rope through.

Whereas the descenders are basically foolproof, rappelling most definitely is not. However, you could get tuition, and practise it. Once you know what you are doing, so you don't panic when the time comes, it's capable of being an awful lot safer than that ladder.

Good advice. Why dont they install ladders to the side of every high rise? Im sure there is a reason as usual, thieves etc, But id be willing to put up with the theft risk so long as we can escape our apartment.

i think part of the reason they arent installed, is that once they are installed the management company have to maintain them and if, god forbid, they failed during use then they fear being sued.

these look good https://www.safelincs.co.uk/saffold-fold-out-fixed-fire-escape-ladder/?sku=SAF18&fGB=true&gad=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1Nf13r7D_gIVGrrtCh1b2QlLEAQYASABEgJV6_D_BwE   although very pricey and probably encounter the problem mentioned above.  you'd need buy in from all, although the second floor occupants may be interested too!

Mistral001

GDB2222 said:

Mistral001 said:

mrmagoo38 said:

Section62 said:

mrmagoo38 said:

Me and my son live on the top floor (3rd floor) of a new build apartment building. We have recently moved in and i bought a fire ladder, this one:

Three storeys is a long way to fall, there is a high probability a fall from that height could be fatal to you and/or your son.

I can understand why someone might want an alternative means of escape, but beware of having something which is more likely to kill you than the smoke/fire you think you need to escape from.

If you really want to be safe get a professional to fit an appropriate means of escape with proper anchor points which have been proof tested.  Attempting a bodge could prove fatal.  Don't rely on something like a windowsill or possibly weak internal wall (especially not on a newbuild property) to provide adequate strength to support you and the ladder.  Also consider how difficult it is to climb out of a window onto a chain ladder, particularly if you are trying to do it in a stressful situation.

I get what you're saying, ive had those thoughts, but thanks. We'd only use the ladder as a last resort. The fire service are coming round this evening to do a requested safety check up. I will ask them about the ladder, the guy i spoke with on the phone from the fire service said that fires are usually designed to be contained to the flats when they occur and that they advise people to close all doors and go to the farthest room from the flats front door and await to be rescued. But i like to have some autonomy in these situations, i dont like being so dependant on other people, its just the way i am. Yes, the fall from that height would definitely be fatal, ive obviously looked down from the window, and as you say, it would certainly be fatal. But if the fire wasnt contained and spread (not impossible according to the bloke i spoke to) and the fire service were not quick enough to respond, id like to have another means of exit. The difference between 2 storeys and 3 is quite drastic, from 2 storeys you'd probably break a lot of bones and possibly be paralysed, but you have a 60% (guess) chance of survival i reckon. From 3 storeys, forget it, no chance.
So yeah, perhaps getting my money back for this thing and getting something better is the answer. I wouldnt trust my balance climbing out of the window with my 20kg son attached to the front of me (with the harness) as i navigate onto a ladder 3 storeys up and attached to a window sill.
Yeah, no...

I think I heard that somewhere before. Think West London block of flats and 2017. 

I remember being in the top storey of a three storey student accommodation owned by the university and there was a substantial rope ladder rolled up beside the window and fixed to the floor.  We had a fire in the house that year.  I was sleeping in my bed at 3.00am when I woke up to see that the light coming through the window from the street light was was actually a smokey shaft of light.  I was aboout 5 minutes away from being trapped in the room as the staircase was already full of smoke.  I think I would have taken my chance with the ladder.  The Fire Brigade  took a little longer than 5 minutes to get there.

That's very frightening. I take it that you went down the main stairs, rather than waiting to be rescued?

Yes I went down stairs and raised the alarm.  Smoke was thick in the stairs, but could still breath.

Incidently a few years later, I took a room in the top floor of a three storey multiple occupancy accommodation building again.  This time it was a private landlord and not university owned.  There was no fire escape or rope ladder in my room, but I bought a rope, and left it beside the window with one end tied to the radiator.  No fire when I was there but I was taking no chances.

silverwhistle

Many years ago as a student I was in a 16 storey block and it was noticeable how much more seriously the upper floors used to take fire alarms!

Another agreement here on how difficult those ladders are to use, admittedly in my case getting back on board a boat, but they do shift in use and if I were to face the same scenario I'd prefer a rope, and some leather gloves..