Co-operative bank refusing to pay £125 refer-a-friend offer FOS case

masonic

Alex9384 said:

masonic said:

It might be worth giving them one final opportunity to review their decision before bringing to the FOS. If they have any sense they'll pay up PDQ.

So, I tried but it's just a waste of time.

"Thanks for your message.

Unfortunately, we are unable to review our decision as the complaint is
rejected due to you not meeting the terms and conditions. We would advise
you to carry on your investigation with the Ombudsman.

Thanks,"

Have you already started a complaint at the FOS? If so, then obviously they pay the case fee whatever happens, so there is nothing for them to lose by making this response.

If you haven't brought your FOS complaint yet, as I thought was the case, then they've made a costly error in assuming you have without checking.

WillPS

Screw them, frankly. Get the case lodged with the ombudsman.

Alex9384

masonic said:

Have you already started a complaint at the FOS? If so, then obviously they pay the case fee whatever happens, so there is nothing for them to lose by making this response.

If you haven't brought your FOS complaint yet, as I thought was the case, then they've made a costly error in assuming you have without checking.

I haven't started yet. I told them that before I submit the case to the FOS, I'd like them to review it one more time in the light of these new findings and gave them the link to this forum and post by Ed-1

Alex9384

Just for comparison, TSB new switch conditions:

Other conditions

• If you’ve received an incentive or benefit for switching to TSB Bank plc using the Current Account Switch Service since 1 October 2022, you’re not eligible for this offer.

• You can only benefit from this offer once. We won’t pay cashback again if you open a second account, either in your own name or in joint names.

• Only one payment will be made to an account, so if you later make it into a joint account and another party switches in, no cashback will be paid.

The bold sections use the same wording as Coop, but as we can see, that doesn't mean you can only get one bonus in a lifetime. I think "benefit once from this offer" is standard in other banks' T&C, as well as "only one payment".

WillPS

Alex9384 said:

Just for comparison, TSB new switch conditions:

Other conditions

• If you’ve received an incentive or benefit for switching to TSB Bank plc using the Current Account Switch Service since 1 October 2022, you’re not eligible for this offer.

• You can only benefit from this offer once. We won’t pay cashback again if you open a second account, either in your own name or in joint names.

• Only one payment will be made to an account, so if you later make it into a joint account and another party switches in, no cashback will be paid.

The bold sections use the same wording as Coop, but as we can see, that doesn't mean you can only get one bonus in a lifetime. I think "benefit once from this offer" is standard in other banks' T&C, as well as "only one payment".

Don't get too wrapped up in what other banks promise and not; that's an argument on shifting sands - there's no guarantee that the FOS will consider that level of detail to be necessary. 

Focus on what The Co-op Bank did and did not tell you about eligibility before you decided to take part. None of the terms The Co-op Bank published excluded you, so you should be paid - that's all that matters. Their argument so far has basically been 'yeah but there were these unpublished conditions and something vague about profiteering which doesn't apply', which is so thin I'm still surprised it took until the ombudsman's intervention before it was thrown out for the unpassable nonsense it clearly is.

oldagetraveller1

I blame the chickens.

https://www.omlet.co.uk/shop/chicken_keeping/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Chicken | Houses | Search | TD&utm_term=chicken coops&msclkid=f0fc162003a8111c4d14728d229b6766&utm_content=House || Generic | SubCat

Alex9384

After a long wait, someone from FOS send me an email, saying they don't uphold my claim.

The thing is, the email doesn't address most of the points I made when making the complaint. Should I remind them what those points were? Should I assign them numbers and then kindly ask them to address each of them?

They say they are "impartial" but also explain me that Coop follow their commercial objectives and that FOS can't force them to pay me. Huh? What is the whole point of FOS again? And why should I or FOS care about what Coop wants? Of course they want to avoid pay outs.

The adjudicator even claimed that Coop T&C are very clear! Yes, indeed they said this, despite the fact that the ombudsman already admitted they are ambiguous and upheld the claim (very similar to mine) of another customer.

I've even mentioned the other case in my complaint, but now I'm pretty sure they didn't even read it.

Also, they brought up the "existing customer" nonsense based on my "existing profile" in the Coop system after I switched away from them. This is nowhere in the T&C, nor did Coop tell me after I switched away from them, that I will remain their customer forever.

Is it reasonable to reply the FOS and politely tell them that the only thing they should take into account is Coop T&C and not their internal rules which are not available to customers? Because customers base their decisions on T&Cs.

Also, is there even a point in appealing to the same person? Or do I need to escalate it further? I can make some good points but not sure if they're likely to change their mind.

eskbanker

Alex9384 said:

They say they are "impartial" but also explain me that Coop follow their commercial objectives and that FOS can't force them to pay me. Huh? What is the whole point of FOS again?

Not sure exactly how they've worded that, but final decisions from actual ombudsmen (as opposed to the findings by more junior adjudicators) are legally binding on the financial institution.

Alex9384 said:

Is it reasonable to reply the FOS and politely tell them that the only thing they should take into account is Coop T&C and not their internal rules which are not available to customers? Because customers base their decisions on T&Cs.

FOS don't just decide on Ts & Cs, as highlighted earlier in the thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80052572#Comment_80052572

Alex9384 said:

Also, is there even a point in appealing to the same person? Or do I need to escalate it further? I can make some good points but not sure if they're likely to change their mind.

You have the right to escalate to an ombudsman for a final binding decision.

Section62

Alex9384 said:

The thing is, the email doesn't address most of the points I made when making the complaint. Should I remind them what those points were? Should I assign them numbers and then kindly ask them to address each of them?

From what I've seen that would largely be a pointless exercise.  I've had sight of a letter from FOS which amounts to them saying both the adjudicators and ombudsmen have the freedom to pick and choose what information/points to take into account, and which they can ignore.

If the adjudicator has chosen to ignore some of what you've said then you can't make them go back and have another look.  Note also that the ombudsman's freedom when it comes to making a final decision includes the ability to ignore facts the adjudicator found/understood/agreed with. They can pick whatever facts (or non-facts) they want in order to support their decision.

If that happens then the consumer's only way of getting 'justice' would be going to court - in terms of overturning an ombudsman's decision that would be by judicial review, the cost of which is likely to be wholly disproportionate to the issue.

Making a complaint about the service won't overturn an adjudicator or ombudsman's findings as these are apparently deemed to be sacrosanct, even where they have demonstrably made an error of fact.

Alex9384 said:

Also, is there even a point in appealing to the same person? Or do I need to escalate it further? I can make some good points but not sure if they're likely to change their mind.

Officially if you don't agree with the adjudicator the FOS say your complaint can be referred to an ombudsman for final decision.  In reality the adjudicator has discretion to reconsider their initial findings and not refer the complaint to an ombudsman.  So you can go round in circles until they finally give up and pass the case to an ombudsman.

You can't "appeal" a decision of either an adjudicator or an ombudsman.  If you don't agree with the adjudicator's findings the referal to the ombudsman means they start from scratch reconsidering the complaint afresh.  This gives them flexibility to make their own errors, even where the adjudicator has already investigated something and established it as a fact.

The strength of your argument appears to be largely irrelevant.  It seems to come down to luck as to who your case is assigned to, and the level of interest they have in finding a fair outcome in accordance with basic legal principles, or if they just want to get the case off their desk asap.

Bridlington1

The Ombudsman has now made a final decision on my case: