Do we always have to apply for probate?

JohnJaques

My brother-in-law died last week and regrettably his death has been sent to the coroner because he fell downstairs.  It appears that we may have to wait some time before we can register the death.

He did leave a will and we have been looking through all his bills, statements and other paperwork.

We have come to the conclusion that he has no assets.  His bank account is overdrawn and he has credit card debts.

So there will be nothing in his estate to distribute and the banks will presumably have to sing for their money because I assume that they can't pursue someone who has died.

Our questions are.....

1. Do we need to apply for probate?

2. Should we tell his bank and credit card issuers before we have registered the death?

Thanks for any advice.

p00hsticks

1. No you don't
Probate is usually only necessary if there is property, shares or large sums of money involved.  

2. My understanding is that you can write to them as a courtesy, but make it clear that there is no money in the estate and that you are not adminstering it - but others will know more than me on this. 

Edit: I've just noticed you mention there was a will - who is named as an executor ? 

Alter_ego

No to probate

Tell banks etc when you can show death certs (get a few)

Keep_pedalling

Assuming he also lived in rented property then probate not required. 

You should not attempt to administer the estate, but I would write to his known creditors explaining that he has died that his estate contains no assets and that no one is administering the estate.

kuratowski

In these circumstances, registering the death and organising the funeral are ok and don't constitute administering the estate.  Checking paperwork to identify whether there are any assets is also ok.  But don't pay any bills or attempt to access bank accounts (as that might constitute intermeddling).  As above, send a standard letter to anyone who needs to be informed, stating that no one is administering the estate.

JohnJaques

Replying to P00hsticks:
His sister (my partner) and his son are named as executors in his will. We are just trying to get our heads around what we need to do - other than arrange a funeral - in order to wind up the estate. So you could say that they are administering the empty estate. 

p00hsticks

JohnJaques said:

Replying to P00hsticks:
His sister (my partner) and his son are named as executors in his will. We are just trying to get our heads around what we need to do - other than arrange a funeral - in order to wind up the estate. So you could say that they are administering the empty estate. 

If the estate is insolvent, then they need to make it clear to any interested parties that they are NOT administering the estate, and nor is anyone else. 

Flugelhorn

JohnJaques said:

Replying to P00hsticks:
His sister (my partner) and his son are named as executors in his will. We are just trying to get our heads around what we need to do - other than arrange a funeral - in order to wind up the estate. So you could say that they are administering the empty estate. 

if it is "empty" then apart from arranging the funeral (which would normally be paid for out of the estate - but if there is no money there you are not obliged to arrange or pay for it, it can be funded by the council. you may wish to pay for it anyway, many families do - but you don't have to)
after that if it is clear there is no money then any letters should be replied to with a standard letter saying it is an insolvent estate and no-one is administering it 

Mojisola

p00hsticks said:

JohnJaques said:

Replying to P00hsticks:
His sister (my partner) and his son are named as executors in his will. We are just trying to get our heads around what we need to do - other than arrange a funeral - in order to wind up the estate. So you could say that they are administering the empty estate. 

If the estate is insolvent, then they need to make it clear to any interested parties that they are NOT administering the estate, and nor is anyone else. 

If someone does write to the companies, don't give a name or any contact details.

If an email is used, set up a new one that can then be shut down.

While there is no legal obligation to administer an estate, that doesn't stop companies putting pressure on relatives of the deceased to deal with debts.

TonyMMM

If there is no estate, there is no need for probate.

You can notify any account holders and creditors that he may have had of his death (and that there is nothing in the estate), but you shouldn't get involved with them beyond that.

If the coroner decides no inquest is necessary then they will let you know and you can then go ahead and register the death.  That may cause a delay of a week or two, but the coroner's office should be able to advise you.

If it does need an inquest then registration of the death can't happen until after the inquest is finally concluded, and will be done by the coroner direct to the registrar, you don't need to be involved in that and it may not happen for some months, at least. If that happens then the coroners office will issue you with an interim death certificate and the other paperwork necessary to allow the funeral to go ahead.

orchid64

Sorry to type this here but I don’t seem to be able to post in the forum. How do I do it?