Demystifying “Location, location, location …”

ACCA

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Hi lovely MSE community, I’ve posted here exactly a year ago (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6352947/house-buying-dilemma-criticize-my-thinking-please/p1), some very decent comments and food for thought, so I went away to research and view properties/ locations, do my homework so that say. The purpose of this post is to share some observations of mine and ask for a helping hand on some points, particularly in respect to location. This may be a long read, so please scroll down for questions section if you’re short in time.

Changes to previous post (ie updates):

·        budget wise: we’ve increased our affordability to ~700k from 460k, mainly due to higher deposit which will require sale of assets (GIA and ISA), still achieving around 65% LTV. We would still prefer to keep the purchase price below 500k, not because we can’t afford a more expensive one.

·        locations1 (done):  we did some property viewings in the following areas – St Albans, Hemel Hampstead, Tring, Harpenden, Borehamwood, Enfield, Basildon, Watford + Bushey, Redhill, Rochester, Sevenoaks, Chelsfield, Orpington, Elmstead Woods, Eltham, Sutton, Surbiton, Oxted and Leatherhead.

·        locations2 (outstanding): our list of areas continues, please see below attached the screenshot of our short-list (rather long), this is what we plan to complete visiting/ researching by Oct-2023. Note: we’ve slightly updated the schedule and added some KPIs (on top of monthly train ticket). Areas we intend to visit and view properties: Stevenage, Cambridge, Leighton Buzzard, Milton Keynes, Hatfield, Cheshunt, Ware, Aylesbury, Hertford, Welwyn Garden City, Rickmansworth/ Croxley Green, Hitchin, Bedford, Horsham, Esher, Liphook, Godalming, Woking, East Grinstead, Lingfield, Tonbridge, Faversham, Guildford, Farnham, Leigh on Sea, Brentwood, Benfleet, Billericay, Chelmsford, Newbury, Basingstoke, Beaconsfield, High Wycombe, Henley-on-Thames, Wendover, Twyford, Taplow.

·        property preference: we’ve re-fined our preference criteria based on the viewings experience during last 12 months – 3+ bed, semi or detached, not a project house, freehold, purpose built, 90+ sq.m., up to 2.5km (30 min) walk to the train station, great nursery and primary school, low crime and air pollution, sensible floor plan (no throughput rooms, no bathrooms with access via kitchen), quite road (far from highway and rails), toilet downstairs, decent internet/ phone signal, bathtub instead of shower, EPC: D and above, no creaky stairs/ flooring, no council flats in close proximity, windows in toilets and bathrooms, entrance hall or porch (no doors leading into living room or kitchen). So these criteria became a “must” for us, but we’ve got also some ‘good to have’ such as grammar school, garden, green areas, driveways, etc

Overall observations/ notes:

·        the areas we’ve visited have both lovely neighbourhoods and some harsh ones, so we did not particularly remove any areas from our short-list (probably Enfield is the only exception, I reckon we haven’t researched it well in advance). The conclusion we make is that it takes a couple of hours to research online the area and you can either eliminate it completely and if not, then it’s very likely one could fine a great hidden gem road

·        in respect to schools and education, same as above, those areas that we’ve shortlisted all had some outstanding schools and those that require improvement, so it’s a game of a catchment area really

·        commute time and cost – this is a big thing for us, given that we’ve got to commute into central London with little WFH (we are looking to change this, but are not counting on it happening). In most instances property prices are taking this into account for example 2-bed in Enfield plus commute (time and cost) would level up with Peterborough 4 bed plus commute (time and cost), however there are exception noted for instance in St Albans, Harpenden, Oxted and Leatherhead

·        air pollution, crime and overall life quality – the pattern seems to be: central London up to Zone 3 and 4, plus unique areas such as Luton, Croydon, New Addington, east of Stratford up to Upminster, Edmonton in Enfield region, Wembley area, and some Abbey Wood and Grays surroundings – are not great, the rest seems to be okayish with some exceptions of course

·        from house quality perspective, it seems that there are areas which tend to have more outdated built, some have a certain style, some have more of a council estate, but overall there is a fair mix of property quality and one can find to its taste

Questions:

(i)     *crux of this post* could you please help me understand the real-life application of ‘location, location, location’ as everyone keeps repeating it? Let me try to give some details for simplicity purposes: say we have three comparable (in a sense of must-criteria list above) properties: one is based in Royston (Herts) listed for 525k, another is based in Orpington listed for 550k and the final one is Rochester (good area – Lordswood) listed for 425k. I’d even avoid pricing here, let’s assume all of these are affordable for our budget, house size and quality is similar, decent roads, great neighbourhood, schools, gardens ie are comparable. The only difference noted by us is commute time and cost, so perhaps our winner would be the one in Orpington (because that's just over 5k saving per year on train for both of us). How do you approach in comparing these areas or properties? And how do you determine what’s the best of these from ‘location’ perspective?  

(ii)   Given the budget (up to 700k), is our ‘must’ criteria list too demanding? Would you re-fine our list of locations based on our affordability and requirements?

(iii)  If we were to stick to our ‘must’ criteria list and a budget of 500k, what are the areas that you may suggest us paying a visit or consider, that’s not on the list?

(iv)  What other criteria would you add in the ‘must’ list, if any?

(v)   I suspect some of the readers have real life experience living in the shortlisted areas above, if you were in our shoes: what location would you choose and which you would not even bother considering? Highly appreciate some insights if possible.

(vi)  Do you have any comments on our ‘observations/ notes’ list? I mean – do any of our preliminary conclusions sound non-sense?

(vii) Is there any way to shorten or range our list of areas based on your experience? We are prioritizing the locations that are closer to London or within M25, so we will push Milton Keynes, Cambridge, Leighton Buzzard, Newbury, Peterborough, Faversham, Basingstoke into our 'last priority' bucket. Reason for asking is that it takes roughly a week for us to research one area (a couple of hours during the week in front of computer, then arranging viewings, Sat is viewings and wonder around pretty much takes the entire day, Sun digest and take notes). Do you know any easier way to research an area?

Many thanks for your time reading and I'd highly appreciate some insights, if possible of course.

A

RelievedSheff

You are thinking into this far too much!

hazyjo

Agree with the above, and will repeat what I said at the beginning of your previous thread. You are overthinking this. And you are considering WAY too many areas. With your now relatively large budget, you can cross off several of those areas.

Sapindus

I think at this stage you should just squint at the spreadsheet and go for the greenest row.  Hitchin looks about the best.

Honestly, there is no such thing as the perfect location/house.  This looks exhausting and you will never be satisfied that you have explored absolutely every possibility.  You will buy somewhere and within the first few months something will come up and you will be racked with doubt all over again whether you made the right choice.

youth_leader

Not sure if you have a dog or not, but my decisions on location were made by walking around the area at different times of night and day. 

Being able to walk in pleasant places became particularly important to me during lockdown, when we couldn't drive.

 I did put an offer in on a bungalow locally which I withdrew shortly afterwards.  I walked my dog in the evening around there and didn't feel particularly safe.  

Good luck!

Surrey_EA

I'm here to re-iterate what has already been said. 

You're considering far too many different locations, and in doing so you can't focus on any of them properly, likely meaning you're missing possible suitable opportunities. It's a "can't see the wood for the trees" situation.

lika_86

I think you need to decide on one factor as a priority, order them by that and then decide which of the top options has the best remaining quality of life based on other factors, although ultimately it will probably come down to what's coming on the market in each area.  

For me? The top factor would be commute time. I haven't read your original thread but aside from convenience issues if you have kids or are planning on them (presumably the case given the school catchment considerations) then a quick commute back home (total commute door to door not just from station to station) after work or if they suddenly need picking up because they're ill or whatever will be super important. 

hazyjo

lika_86 said:

I think you need to decide on one factor as a priority, order them by that and then decide which of the top options has the best remaining quality of life based on other factors, although ultimately it will probably come down to what's coming on the market in each area.  

For me? The top factor would be commute time. I haven't read your original thread but aside from convenience issues if you have kids or are planning on them (presumably the case given the school catchment considerations) then a quick commute back home (total commute door to door not just from station to station) after work or if they suddenly need picking up because they're ill or whatever will be super important. 

Weirdly, they've allowed 30 minutes to walk to a station! I would reduce that to 15. Unless you're moving out to the sticks/middle of nowhere, there's absolutely no reason to look at a 30 min walk. That (especially in winter) would make my commute completely unbearable!

ArbitraryRandom

When I was thinking about location, one of the most useful but least scientific things I did was go to a local cafe for lunch and ask them if they could recommend a pub for a drink later. 

See what sense you have about the place after meeting some of the people and just spending half an hour 'feeling' what it's like. 

Surrey_EA

hazyjo said:

lika_86 said:

I think you need to decide on one factor as a priority, order them by that and then decide which of the top options has the best remaining quality of life based on other factors, although ultimately it will probably come down to what's coming on the market in each area.  

For me? The top factor would be commute time. I haven't read your original thread but aside from convenience issues if you have kids or are planning on them (presumably the case given the school catchment considerations) then a quick commute back home (total commute door to door not just from station to station) after work or if they suddenly need picking up because they're ill or whatever will be super important. 

Weirdly, they've allowed 30 minutes to walk to a station! I would reduce that to 15. Unless you're moving out to the sticks/middle of nowhere, there's absolutely no reason to look at a 30 min walk. That (especially in winter) would make my commute completely unbearable!

Good shout that. 

What influences the time length of a commute is very often the first mile and the last mile. Potentially looking at places that would involve up to an hour on foot just getting from house to station each day is a bit much.

ReadingTim

hazyjo said:

With your now relatively large budget, you can cross off several of those areas.

There are also several other locations to which the budget won't stretch, so those can be crossed off as well!