Cut off from Future Pension Centre phone line - is there an easier way to sort things out?

Manchesterlodger

Hi, 

Is there a "sticky" anywhere detailing what one can do if you can't get through to the Future Pension Centre phone line?

I called this morning, navigated the menu, got an engaged tone and then was abruptly cut off - so not held in a queue. 

I've got a UK pension forecast and have quite a few missing years (I turn 60 this year, am working f/t and want to make up the contributions).

I spent part of my life in Canada and I know I need to get a forecast from Canada Pension Plan as well - but it's likely to be small as I didn't do much paid work while I was over there (I was married at the time). 

I'm hoping, once I've got the information I need from Canada Pension, that I can make some extra contributions to the UK one (as I have 20 years where I did not contribute enough to the UK state pension, only 23 full years and 8 years where I can make extra voluntary contributions).

I don't know how long it will take me to get the information I need from Canada and am a bit worried that I may not get the information in time to meet the UK July deadline and/or not be able to get hold of the Future Pension Centre in time. 

Any suggestions as to what is the quickest way to sort this out appreciated. 

I am going to try and call a government department in Canada later today but, from past experience, I know sorting out things can take time. 

Thanks

molerat

Post up the full details from your pension forecast and someone will point you in the right direction.

Current £££.pp amount accrued up to April 2022 (and if that amount was from a forecast pre or post April 11th 2023)
Number of pre 2016 NI years full
Number of post 2016 NI years full
Tax year you reach state retirement
Any COPE amount shown
Years which show not full and prices

If you were working overseas after 2006 there is the possibility to fill some gaps with class 2 contributions which are only around £160 per year.

Social Security abroad: NI38 - GOV.UK

Suhusa

Can I ask why you need a statement from Canada? You're over then ten years minimum requirement with your UK years alone, so you don't need your Canadian years for that. According to a quick google it also doesn't look like the UK and Canada allow you to exchange insurance credits from one system to the other.

Manchesterlodger

Suhusa said:

Can I ask why you need a statement from Canada? You're over then ten years minimum requirement with your UK years alone, so you don't need your Canadian years for that. According to a quick google it also doesn't look like the UK and Canada allow you to exchange insurance credits from one system to the other.

When I rang the UK Pensions Centre back in 2018 to try and do some extra payments for my UK state pension, the person I spoke to kept insisting that I needed to find out how much Canada Pension I would get so that I didn't make an overpayment in the UK state one. I don't know why and I didn't fully understand the explanation I was given either. At the time I was overwhelmed from coming back to UK unexpectedly due to injury and then a really poor housing situation where I ended up being served a Sect 21 for complaining about the damp. After that I moved 7 times in 3 years and also worked several different job contracts - so the net result was that I just put the whole thing on hold because I didn't have the energy to deal with it. 

I've just phoned Canada and been told that I'm entitled to some Canada Pension but they could only give me a forecast based on my income and not including the pension split I did with my now ex husband. So I still don't know completely what I will receive from Canada Pension Plan in total when I turn 65 but I know what my minimum will be - which is $169.69 Canadian a month. However, from what I understand, this will be paid into a UK account and then I'm likely to be subject to currency charges on the UK side so the amount I will get each month won't be that much. 

Suhusa

'Overpayment' is not how I'd put it. I'm paying Class 2 contributions towards my UK state pension in addition to my mandatory contributions towards the German state pension, because those Class 2 contributions are a spectacular investment and in the end I'll have two pensions.

As for the currency charges, you might want to look into getting a Wise account, as their charges can be quite a bit lower than the charges of a high street bank.

Depending on when you stopped working in the UK before you went to Canada you may be able to buy missing years with cheaper Class 2 contributions. However, you should first post the information that molerat asked for because not all years may add to your forecast.

Manchesterlodger

molerat said:

Post up the full details from your pension forecast and someone will point you in the right direction.

Current £££.pp amount accrued up to April 2022 (and if that amount was from a forecast pre or post April 11th 2023)
Number of pre 2016 NI years full
Number of post 2016 NI years full
Tax year you reach state retirement
Any COPE amount shown
Years which show not full and prices

If you were working overseas after 2006 there is the possibility to fill some gaps with class 2 contributions which are only around £160 per year.

Social Security abroad: NI38 - GOV.UK

Thank you. 

So here are the details (and I did this printout yesterday, 16th April 2023):

The following estimate is based on my National Insurance record up to 5 April 2022: £131.29 a week

The forecast if I contribute until 5 April 2030 is £177.88 a week (£773.46 a month, £9,281.52 a year).

It tells me I can improve my forecast (as I have shortfalls). The most that I can increase my forecast to is: £203.85 a week.

I have 23 years of full contributions.
8 years to contribute before 5 April 2030.
20 years when I did not contribute enough. 

Full years pre 2016:

Full years: 1979 - 1986 (So these years are full: 1979 - 1980, 1980 - 1981, 1981 - 1982, 1982 - 1983, 1983 - 1984, 1984 - 1985, 1985 - 1986)

Years are not full:
1986 - 1987 
1987 - 1988 
1988 - 1989 

It looks like I can’t make any extra payments for these – it’s too late to make payments for these missing years.

Full years: 1989 - 1995 (so these years are full: 1989 - 1990, 1990 - 1991, 1991 - 1992, 1992 - 1993, 1993 - 1994, 1994 - 1995)

Year is not full 1995 - 1996 – it’s too late to pay for this missing year.
 
Full years: 1996 - 2002 (so these years are full: 1996 - 1997, 1997 - 1998, 1998 - 1999, 1999 - 2000, 2000 - 2001, 2001 - 2002)

Years are not full: 2002 - 2014 (so this is years 2002 - 2003, 2003 - 2004, 2004 - 2005, 2005 - 2006, 2006 - 2007, 2007 - 2008, 2008 - 2009, 2009 - 2010, 2010 - 2011, 2011 - 2012, 2012 - 2013, 2013 - 2014)

Prices to make up these years:

2006 – 2007 £824.20
2007 – 2008 £824.20
2008 - 2009 £824.20
2009 - 2010 £824.20
2010 - 2011 £824.20
2011 - 2012 £824.20
2012 - 2013 £824.20
2013 - 2014 £824.20

Full year: 2014 - 2015

Years are not full: 2015 - 2019 (so this is years 2015 - 2016, 2016 - 2017, 2017 - 2018, 2018 - 2019)

Prices to make up these years:

2015 - 2016 £824.20
2016 - 2017 £824.20
2017 - 2018 £824.20
2018 - 2019 £158.50

Full years: 2019 - 2022 (2019 - 2020, 2020 - 2021, 2021- 2022).

My record for 2022 - 2023 isn't available yet but I think it will be full as I've worked all the past year. 

20 years pre 2016 are full (if I've added up the info above correctly)
3 years post 2016 are full (again, if I've added this info above correctly)

Tax year I reach state retirement - the forecast says I can get my state pension on 20 July 2030 so am guessing that's the 2030 - 2031 tax year?

I don't know what a COPE amount is? - any information appreciated. 

Re: If you were working overseas after 2006 there is the possibility to fill some gaps with class 2 contributions which are only around £160 per year.

Social Security abroad: NI38 - GOV.UK

I spoke to someone from the Future Pension Centre in 2018 and they kept insisting that I needed to find out what pension provision I would get from Canada before I could make any additional payments – they kept saying that I was in danger of paying too much. This didn’t make much sense to me at the time and as I was struggling with so many other things in my life at the time I ended up shelving the whole issue which I regret.

I rang Service Canada today about my CPP and was told that they forecast a monthly pension of $169.69 if I retired at 65. They are going to send me forecasts for 65, 67 and 70 though they will arrive in the post so are likely to take a while to get to me. When I divorced from my husband I applied for a Canada Pension credit split as well (ie I get a little bit of his CPP for the years we were together in Canada) – but the Canadian agent I spoke to today said that they could not tell me how much this would add to my pension until I actually apply for it, so I am none the wiser).

 Any help with this appreciated. I’m really trying to sort out what I can now.

 

Manchesterlodger

Suhusa said:

'Overpayment' is not how I'd put it. I'm paying Class 2 contributions towards my UK state pension in addition to my mandatory contributions towards the German state pension, because those Class 2 contributions are a spectacular investment and in the end I'll have two pensions.

As for the currency charges, you might want to look into getting a Wise account, as their charges can be quite a bit lower than the charges of a high street bank.

Depending on when you stopped working in the UK before you went to Canada you may be able to buy missing years with cheaper Class 2 contributions. However, you should first post the information that molerat asked for because not all years may add to your forecast.

Yes, well I'm not an expert. I tried to understand what I was being told in 2018 and it didn't make sense to me and the person I spoke to wasn't forthcoming with any other explanation and just kept repeating the information when I asked for help. So I didn't know what to do and as I was also dealing with an eviction and various other things, I had to let it go. 

I've posted the information that molerat has requested. 

Manchesterlodger

molerat said:

Post up the full details from your pension forecast and someone will point you in the right direction.

Current £££.pp amount accrued up to April 2022 (and if that amount was from a forecast pre or post April 11th 2023)
Number of pre 2016 NI years full
Number of post 2016 NI years full
Tax year you reach state retirement
Any COPE amount shown
Years which show not full and prices

If you were working overseas after 2006 there is the possibility to fill some gaps with class 2 contributions which are only around £160 per year.

Social Security abroad: NI38 - GOV.UK

BTW I forgot to mention the years I was in Canada. So I was in Canada from January 2002 - April 2014 and then from January 2016 - April 2018 (just mentioning these in case it's relevant with difference contribution classes). 

molerat

COPE is shown at the bottom of the forecast in a click link in "You've been in a contracted-out pension scheme".  It looks like you will have one as the numbers don't work otherwise.

The only thing the COPE affects is the number of pre 2016 years you can use.

You need 13 more years to reach the full pension with 8 years, including 2022-23, left so need to fill at least 5 gaps to be able to get there.

18-19 is an easy part filled win at £158.50, around the same as class 2 with no arguments / work involved.

For the periods you were working overseas you need to investigate the availability of class 2.  You can mix and match class 2 and class 3 within a year if you were only working some weeks but you will need to come up with a work history for those periods.

It does seem that Canada has an agreement with the UK so a little light reading may be in order https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/2699/made?view=plain

Manchesterlodger

molerat said:

COPE is shown at the bottom of the forecast in a click link in "You've been in a contracted-out pension scheme".  It looks like you will have one as the numbers don't work otherwise.

The only thing the COPE affects is the number of pre 2016 years you can use.

You need 13 more years to reach the full pension with 8 years, including 2022-23, left so need to fill at least 5 gaps to be able to get there.

18-19 is an easy part filled win at £158.50, around the same as class 2 with no arguments / work involved.

For the periods you were working overseas you need to investigate the availability of class 2.  You can mix and match class 2 and class 3 within a year if you were only working some weeks but you will need to come up with a work history for those periods.

It does seem that Canada has an agreement with the UK so a little light reading may be in order https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/2699/made?view=plain

Re: COPE - I logged on and clicked where you suggested and it says the following:

Contracted Out Pension Equivalent (COPE)

Your COPE estimate is £10.30 a week

This will not affect your State Pension forecast. The COPE amount is paid as part of your other pension schemes, not by the government.

In most cases the private pension scheme you were contracted out to:

• will include an amount equal to the COPE amount
• may not individually identify the COPE amount

The total amount of pension paid by your workplace or personal pension schemes will depend on the scheme and on any investment choices.

It doesn't say anything about the number of pre-2016 years I can use?

Any information on this appreciated. 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Manchesterlodger said:

molerat said:

COPE is shown at the bottom of the forecast in a click link in "You've been in a contracted-out pension scheme".  It looks like you will have one as the numbers don't work otherwise.

The only thing the COPE affects is the number of pre 2016 years you can use.

You need 13 more years to reach the full pension with 8 years, including 2022-23, left so need to fill at least 5 gaps to be able to get there.

18-19 is an easy part filled win at £158.50, around the same as class 2 with no arguments / work involved.

For the periods you were working overseas you need to investigate the availability of class 2.  You can mix and match class 2 and class 3 within a year if you were only working some weeks but you will need to come up with a work history for those periods.

It does seem that Canada has an agreement with the UK so a little light reading may be in order https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/2699/made?view=plain

Re: COPE - I logged on and clicked where you suggested and it says the following:

Contracted Out Pension Equivalent (COPE)

Your COPE estimate is £10.30 a week

This will not affect your State Pension forecast. The COPE amount is paid as part of your other pension schemes, not by the government.

In most cases the private pension scheme you were contracted out to:

• will include an amount equal to the COPE amount
• may not individually identify the COPE amount

The total amount of pension paid by your workplace or personal pension schemes will depend on the scheme and on any investment choices.

It doesn't say anything about the number of pre-2016 years I can use?

Any information on this appreciated. 

You need to look at your NI record for that.