Recalled sofa

le318

JetpackVelociraptor said:

"It was probably built to older fire regulations and therefore is not technically compliant."

Actually it's part of a large range of cheap Chinese imported sofas made with fabrics from a specific Chinese manufacturer that do not meet UK standards. British fire safety standards for upholstery have been in place since 1988, so this is something that is either made to a different countries standard or none, there's no chance it was made to an older standard. Argos also had some affected products that they've pulled off sale.

OP, if you're concerned about your own safety, you could conduct a little test of your own. There's usually a fabric sample attached to the underneath of the sofa, or behind the seat or back cushions. Cut it off, put a match or lighter to it and see what happens. If it immediately melts into flammable goo, I'd recommend you get it out of your house. Bear in mind that you're now aware of the situation with the sofa, if you ever have a fire in your house your insurance will use that as a convenient excuse to not pay out.

Thank you; I'll give this a go.
I definitely don't want to be in a situation where my insurer won't cover me in the event of a fire   

born_again

le318 said:

Hi!

I brought a sofa from Oak Furniture Superstore in September 2020. I have recently been contacted them as the product has been recalled (the cover and filling material is not compliant with fire regulations). The company has gone into administration and because of this I have been advised that I can't return it to them or directly apply for a refund- I have been sent a proof of debt form which I have returned to the firm dealing with the insolvency. They have stated that the money I get back will likely be significantly less than what I paid. 

I'm just wondering if there are any legal avenues I can take to challenge this? I'm annoyed that I have to fork out for a new sofa and also cover the cost of disposing of the old one!

Thanks in advance for your help

https://www.bigfurnituregroup.com/product-recall-costs-put-retailer-into-administration/

Sadly you join a long list of creditors & in reality stand to get nothing.

user1977

JetpackVelociraptor said:

Bear in mind that you're now aware of the situation with the sofa, if you ever have a fire in your house your insurance will use that as a convenient excuse to not pay out.

No, insurers can't just make up excuses after the event. They could only legitimately refuse to pay out if you had misled them in answering a question they had asked you in the first place, or have actually breached a condition of your policy - there's no principle that you need to volunteer information about your furniture (or other risk factors) which they haven't asked about.

Aylesbury_Duck

JetpackVelociraptor said:

"It was probably built to older fire regulations and therefore is not technically compliant."

Actually it's part of a large range of cheap Chinese imported sofas made with fabrics from a specific Chinese manufacturer that do not meet UK standards. British fire safety standards for upholstery have been in place since 1988, so this is something that is either made to a different countries standard or none, there's no chance it was made to an older standard. Argos also had some affected products that they've pulled off sale.

OP, if you're concerned about your own safety, you could conduct a little test of your own. There's usually a fabric sample attached to the underneath of the sofa, or behind the seat or back cushions. Cut it off, put a match or lighter to it and see what happens. If it immediately melts into flammable goo, I'd recommend you get it out of your house. Bear in mind that you're now aware of the situation with the sofa, if you ever have a fire in your house your insurance will use that as a convenient excuse to not pay out.

Thanks, interesting technical insight.

I disagree on the insurance point though.  I can't see that an insurer would be able to wriggle out of settling a claim in these circumstances, unless it's a condition of the policy that all of the policyholder's furnishings comply with certain regulations, or that the policyholder declares new information if they're in receipt of it during the policy.  Otherwise, anyone buying old or second-hand furniture or appliances runs the risk of being in breach of their insurance.

le318

Aylesbury_Duck said:

JetpackVelociraptor said:

"It was probably built to older fire regulations and therefore is not technically compliant."

Actually it's part of a large range of cheap Chinese imported sofas made with fabrics from a specific Chinese manufacturer that do not meet UK standards. British fire safety standards for upholstery have been in place since 1988, so this is something that is either made to a different countries standard or none, there's no chance it was made to an older standard. Argos also had some affected products that they've pulled off sale.

OP, if you're concerned about your own safety, you could conduct a little test of your own. There's usually a fabric sample attached to the underneath of the sofa, or behind the seat or back cushions. Cut it off, put a match or lighter to it and see what happens. If it immediately melts into flammable goo, I'd recommend you get it out of your house. Bear in mind that you're now aware of the situation with the sofa, if you ever have a fire in your house your insurance will use that as a convenient excuse to not pay out.

Thanks, interesting technical insight.

I disagree on the insurance point though.  I can't see that an insurer would be able to wriggle out of settling a claim in these circumstances, unless it's a condition of the policy that all of the policyholder's furnishings comply with certain regulations, or that the policyholder declares new information if they're in receipt of it during the policy.  Otherwise, anyone buying old or second-hand furniture or appliances runs the risk of being in breach of their insurance.

We will pay for Accidental Damage to Your Buildings or Contents as a direct result of a single, unexpected and

unintended event which is not a result of any causes listed above.

What is not covered?

We will not pay for loss or damage:

• due to faulty materials, poor workmanship or design

Taken from my home insurance policy. I'm going to assume that this would fall into the category of "faulty materials"?

Aylesbury_Duck

le318 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

JetpackVelociraptor said:

"It was probably built to older fire regulations and therefore is not technically compliant."

Actually it's part of a large range of cheap Chinese imported sofas made with fabrics from a specific Chinese manufacturer that do not meet UK standards. British fire safety standards for upholstery have been in place since 1988, so this is something that is either made to a different countries standard or none, there's no chance it was made to an older standard. Argos also had some affected products that they've pulled off sale.

OP, if you're concerned about your own safety, you could conduct a little test of your own. There's usually a fabric sample attached to the underneath of the sofa, or behind the seat or back cushions. Cut it off, put a match or lighter to it and see what happens. If it immediately melts into flammable goo, I'd recommend you get it out of your house. Bear in mind that you're now aware of the situation with the sofa, if you ever have a fire in your house your insurance will use that as a convenient excuse to not pay out.

Thanks, interesting technical insight.

I disagree on the insurance point though.  I can't see that an insurer would be able to wriggle out of settling a claim in these circumstances, unless it's a condition of the policy that all of the policyholder's furnishings comply with certain regulations, or that the policyholder declares new information if they're in receipt of it during the policy.  Otherwise, anyone buying old or second-hand furniture or appliances runs the risk of being in breach of their insurance.

We will pay for Accidental Damage to Your Buildings or Contents as a direct result of a single, unexpected and

unintended event which is not a result of any causes listed above.

What is not covered?

We will not pay for loss or damage:

• due to faulty materials, poor workmanship or design

Taken from my home insurance policy. I'm going to assume that this would fall into the category of "faulty materials"?

I'm not sure it would.  The materials aren't faulty, they just don't meet a specific standard.  As JetpackVelociraptor pointed out, the latest standard dates from 1988.  I think it unreasonable for an insurer to expect policyholders to ensure that all their furniture/furnishings aren't older than that, or to decline a claim if they discover that someone was still using grandma's wingback chair from the 1970s, for example.  I would think that that clause applies to faulty materials, poor workmanship or design that causes the fire, such as a dodgy third-party phone charger, or a badly wired cooker.  If you had a toaster fire that spread through your flat and led to your sofa catching alight, it would seem wrong not to pay for smoke-damaged or destroyed items in your flat on the basis that your sofa was more flammable than it might be.

However, those are only my views, and I may be mistaken.  Ultimately, only you can judge how much risk you're comfortable with, and whether the cost of disposal and replacement, partially offset by what might be a negligible sum from the administrators, is worth it.

tightauldgit

There will be no doubt thousands of people in the UK with these sofas that have been recalled who are completely unaware that they've been recalled and will therefore do nothing about it. It would have to be a particularly thorough insurance company to do the legwork to discover that you had been informed and knew that the sofas had been recalled and therefore are denying your insurance claim. I'm not saying it's impossible.  

user1977

le318 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

JetpackVelociraptor said:

"It was probably built to older fire regulations and therefore is not technically compliant."

Actually it's part of a large range of cheap Chinese imported sofas made with fabrics from a specific Chinese manufacturer that do not meet UK standards. British fire safety standards for upholstery have been in place since 1988, so this is something that is either made to a different countries standard or none, there's no chance it was made to an older standard. Argos also had some affected products that they've pulled off sale.

OP, if you're concerned about your own safety, you could conduct a little test of your own. There's usually a fabric sample attached to the underneath of the sofa, or behind the seat or back cushions. Cut it off, put a match or lighter to it and see what happens. If it immediately melts into flammable goo, I'd recommend you get it out of your house. Bear in mind that you're now aware of the situation with the sofa, if you ever have a fire in your house your insurance will use that as a convenient excuse to not pay out.

Thanks, interesting technical insight.

I disagree on the insurance point though.  I can't see that an insurer would be able to wriggle out of settling a claim in these circumstances, unless it's a condition of the policy that all of the policyholder's furnishings comply with certain regulations, or that the policyholder declares new information if they're in receipt of it during the policy.  Otherwise, anyone buying old or second-hand furniture or appliances runs the risk of being in breach of their insurance.

We will pay for Accidental Damage to Your Buildings or Contents as a direct result of a single, unexpected and

unintended event which is not a result of any causes listed above.

What is not covered?

We will not pay for loss or damage:

• due to faulty materials, poor workmanship or design

Taken from my home insurance policy. I'm going to assume that this would fall into the category of "faulty materials"?

Is that only a caveat to the accidental damage cover though? That's not really relevant to the insured risk of fire (or third party liability if the neighbours claim against you).

The whole point of insurance is that it covers you for things like faulty items bursting into flames.

Manxman_in_exile

user1977 said:

le318 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

JetpackVelociraptor said:

"It was probably built to older fire regulations and therefore is not technically compliant."

Actually it's part of a large range of cheap Chinese imported sofas made with fabrics from a specific Chinese manufacturer that do not meet UK standards. British fire safety standards for upholstery have been in place since 1988, so this is something that is either made to a different countries standard or none, there's no chance it was made to an older standard. Argos also had some affected products that they've pulled off sale.

OP, if you're concerned about your own safety, you could conduct a little test of your own. There's usually a fabric sample attached to the underneath of the sofa, or behind the seat or back cushions. Cut it off, put a match or lighter to it and see what happens. If it immediately melts into flammable goo, I'd recommend you get it out of your house. Bear in mind that you're now aware of the situation with the sofa, if you ever have a fire in your house your insurance will use that as a convenient excuse to not pay out.

Thanks, interesting technical insight.

I disagree on the insurance point though.  I can't see that an insurer would be able to wriggle out of settling a claim in these circumstances, unless it's a condition of the policy that all of the policyholder's furnishings comply with certain regulations, or that the policyholder declares new information if they're in receipt of it during the policy.  Otherwise, anyone buying old or second-hand furniture or appliances runs the risk of being in breach of their insurance.

We will pay for Accidental Damage to Your Buildings or Contents as a direct result of a single, unexpected and

unintended event which is not a result of any causes listed above.

What is not covered?

We will not pay for loss or damage:

• due to faulty materials, poor workmanship or design

Taken from my home insurance policy. I'm going to assume that this would fall into the category of "faulty materials"?

Is that only a caveat to the accidental damage cover though? That's not really relevant to the insured risk of fire (or third party liability if the neighbours claim against you).

The whole point of insurance is that it covers you for things like faulty items bursting into flames.

My initial reaction to the exception quoted by the OP was that it's meant to exclude losses caused by "faulty materials, poor workmanship or design" by third parties (eg tradesmen) working on your property - not to cover "faulty materials" on items you've bought.  Although I may be mistaken about that.

Of course, many people would say that your home insurance should cover faulty materials etc used by tradesmen, but I've noticed that some policies have moved away from that and specifically exclude damage cause by third parties working on your property.

JetpackVelociraptor

I am somewhat paranoid about insurance, I'll admit it. I would be a bit concerned that in the event of a fire, and the sofa being a contributing factor to the fire spreading more quickly or further than it otherwise would, OP could find themself either not insured or being sued by someone else's insurance company. If it were me, I'd check out just how flammable it seems before deciding whether to keep it.

I personally suspect these sofas are more flammable than vintage furniture built prior to the fire regulations. We're not talking about someone's authentic 1960's G Plan chair here, we're talking about something built in China to the cheapest possible standards by companies that count every staple and millilitre of adhesive in order to cut costs down to an absolute bare minimum. And, bought at a time when the shipping costs from China to the UK had literally trebled, so costs had to be cut further from the manufacturing side of things. I would guess the majority of furniture built prior to 1988 that's still in use was quite well built, as it's still around! Also it would probably have been recovered by now unless it's upholstered in leather or wool, and probably made good use of natural materials. Leather is naturally fire resistant, as is wool (it chars rather than melting and burning). The things to be wary of are artificial materials that, without the fire retardant coatings, will melt and burn like a torch.

The question is whether OP just has a sofa that doesn't meet some basic red tape requirement, or whether OP has the upholstery equivalent of a pile of oily rags in their living room. Hopefully the latter!