ParkingEye Cambridge Retail Park

B789

camelcx said:
Beehive center is next door. I'm sure the sign there was different. I'll need to go take some pictures of this.

The Beehive Centre is a different car park and has the much better PE signs:

https://goo.gl/maps/XnjBmASBxzJMebH47

camelcx

Just an update to the matter. I have emailed JLL (supposedly the managing agent) regarding this with PE in copy as suggested by CM. 
One more thing I found was that Railpen has acquired the retail park and is proposing redevelopment.

https://www.cspretail.com/swposts/cambridge-retail-park/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/major-redevelopment-cambridge-retail-park-26671971.amp
So have just sent another email to them. Now it is a matter of waiting to see if any of the emails could get the PCN cancelled or to submit a POPLA appeal on next Monday. 

camelcx

I have called the beehive center and the guy confirmed that they are also managing the Cambridge Retail Park and said if I could email over my receipt and the PCN, he would try to get it cancelled. I have emailed through the details on Friday and have not heard back.

Problem is that Monday seems to be the last day for POPLA appeal (32 days after the POPLA code). Guess I'll need to put together the POPLA appeal soon just in case. 

BTW, I took a picture of the sign there. It certainly looked different from Google map.

Coupon-mad

Put together a POPLA Appeal and hope that it gets cancelled tomorrow.

If not, state at the start of the POPLA Appeal that a manager (name him) at the retail park has confirmed he will try to cancel this unfair PCN.  ParkingEye will read that and might offer 'no contest' and throw in the towel.

camelcx

Have spoken with the beehive center again, the guy suggest that I need to talk to his supervisor who will come to work at 6pm. So will give them a call again then to check. But here is my first draft of the POPLA appeal:

1. Car park management team agreed to cancel the parking charge

I have spoke to the manager named XXX of the car park who have agreed to cancel the unfair PCN upon receiving the transaction details to prove I am a genuine customer on the date.

2. Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice –non-compliance

The two ANPR images are taken when the car is driving on the road entering and exiting the retail park showing a time difference of 4 hours 10 mins and 11 seconds. Given it is a big car parking offering 800 parking spaces, 3-5mins is necessary on a busy Saturday evening for a driver to take from the first image being taken until a parking space is found and the car finally parked (before any contract could be established).

The time between the contract is formed and the time the vehicle left the car park should be well within the 4 hours free parking period plus the minimum grace period of 10mins set out by BPA’s Code of Practice (13.3) which states that:

 "Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added

to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN. "

Further, the BPA’s Code of Practice states (13) that there are two grace periods: one at the end (of a minimum of 10 minutes) and one at the start.

BPA’s Code of Practice (13.1) states that:
“The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes."

The government statuary Private Parking Code of Practice (which is coming into force soon) is also consistent by providing one consideration period at the start and one grace period at the end. And both should apply.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-parking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice#duration-of-parking-period

Further, the "Annex B: Consideration and grace periods" of the above CoP has set out, for this specific case (Free for a period of 30 minutes or more and larger than 500 spaces), a minimum of 10 mins consideration period and 10 mins grace period.

Therefore, it is not unreasonable to think a 10mins period should also be given at the start as per the BPA CoP 13.1 in addition to the 10mins minimum grace period set out in 13.3.

3. No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

As this operator does not have proprietary interest in the land then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner.

The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights, and of course all enforcement dates/times/days, and the boundary of the site - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do, and when/where.

It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is authorised on the material date, to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only).

Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules. A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.

Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic but crucial information such as the site boundary and any bays where enforcement applies/does not apply. Not forgetting evidence of the only restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge, as well as the date that the parking contract began, and when it runs to, or whether it runs in perpetuity, and of course, who the signatories are: name/job title/employer company, and whether they are authorised by the landowner to sign a binding legal agreement.

Paragraph 7 of the BPA CoP defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

a the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

b any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation

c any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

d who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

e the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement

4. No sufficient evidence to prove exceeded free "parking" period

At the entrance of the car park, there is a big signage showing "up to 4 hours free parking". The operator is put to strict proof of the time the vehicle has been "parked" in the car park. The ANPR images provided was only taken when the car is moving on the road. Again, for the size of the car park (over 800 parking spaces), it is not unreasonable to take 5 mins from driving in the entrance until the car is finally "parked" and take another 5 mins to leave the car park. Therefore, it could be totally possible that the vehicle had "parked" well within the free 4 hours period and certainly with in the 4 hours free period plus the 10 mins minimum grace period. Hence, no breaching of any contract.

1505grandad

2. Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice –non-compliance

You should be using/quoting BPA CoP version 8 dated Jan 2020  -  wording is different

Coupon-mad

Don't say 5-7 mins.

You are entitled to at least ten.

camelcx

1505grandad said:

2. Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice –non-compliance

You should be using/quoting BPA CoP version 8 dated Jan 2020  -  wording is different

Edited as suggested. Thanks. 

Coupon-mad said:

Don't say 5-7 mins.

You are entitled to at least ten.

Have removed that bit and changed to arguing about the total time instead.

1505grandad

"BPA’s Code of Practice (13.1) states that:"

Have you read 13.2?:-

"13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place"

camelcx

1505grandad said:

"BPA’s Code of Practice (13.1) states that:"

Have you read 13.2?:-

"13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place"

Oh, yes. I had my doubt but really didn't have my mind straight there (was merely copying some old appeal on the forum, my bad). So the BPA code is really saying that there is no consideration period if a parking event happened by 13.2?

Just to be clear, I should remove the argument of consideration period over BPA code, so there is now only one grace period? My arguement would be that the parking event could only happen after the car was parked (so several mins after the first ANPR image). So the total parking time should be within the entitled 4 hours plus 10 mins grace period?

I have changed the second point as below:

2. Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice –non-compliance

The two ANPR images are taken when the car is driving on the road entering and exiting the retail park showing a time difference of 4 hours 10 mins and 11 seconds. Given it is a big car parking offering 800 parking spaces, 3-5mins is necessary on a busy Saturday evening for a driver to take from the first image being taken until a parking space is found and the car finally parked (before any contract could be established).

The time between the contract is formed and the time the vehicle left the car park should be well within the 4 hours free parking period plus the minimum grace period of 10mins set out by BPA’s Code of Practice (13.3) which states that:

 "Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN. "

It is to be noted that the minimum 10 mins guidance is all car parks regardless of the size. For the specific case (car park with 800 parking spaces), it is not unreasonable to think that a longer grace period should be given.

The government statuary Private Parking Code of Practice (which is coming into force soon) says there are two grace period: one consideration period at the start and one grace period at the end. And both should apply.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-parking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice#duration-of-parking-period

Further, the "Annex B: Consideration and grace periods" of the above CoP has set out, for this specific case (Free for a period of 30 minutes or more and larger than 500 spaces), a minimum of 10 mins consideration period and 10 mins grace period.

Therefore, it is not unreasonable to think a 10mins period should also be given in addition to the 10mins minimum grace period set out BPA CoP 13.3.