Flexible Cash ISA plus Stocks & Shares ISA

surreysaver

I have just come across the concept of Flexible Cash ISAs despite them having been around since 2016.

I believe I understand how they work when just withdrawing and replacing cash.  I have been subscribing to a S&S ISA for several years, paying in £500 per month.  

My question is:
How much money can I pay into a Flexible Cash ISA this tax year, assuming the total I will have ended up paying into my S&S will be £6k?  Obviously by the end of the tax year the result of a Flexible Cash ISA couldn't be more than £14k of new money, but could I pay in £20k of new money into the Flexible Cash ISA as long as at least £6k of it is removed by the end of the tax year?

masonic

If you wish to be fully compliant with the ISA rules, then you should not at any time exceed the annual allowance across the current year ISAs you hold. That's as far as the forum rules allow this discussion to go.

surreysaver

masonic said:

If you wish to be fully compliant with the ISA rules, then you should not at any time exceed the annual allowance across the current year ISAs you hold. That's as far as the forum rules allow this discussion to go.

Response understood. It just doesn't seem clear anywhere I've searched.

Alexland

surreysaver said:

 It just doesn't seem clear anywhere I've searched.

Noone reputable is going to write about it as the ISA rules are clear you can contribute £20k per tax year and HMRC could at any time and without notice to the customer increase the frequency they look at ISA contributions and if you are breaking the rules they could take action.

surreysaver

Alexland said:

surreysaver said:

 It just doesn't seem clear anywhere I've searched.

Noone reputable is going to write about it as the ISA rules are clear you can contribute £20k per tax year and HMRC could at any time and without notice to the customer increase the frequency they look at ISA contributions and if you are breaking the rules they could take action.

I know the annual allowance is £20k, I was seeking clarity on the rules as I wish to not bend them. At no time was I going to have more than £20k subscribed at any one time, but it is not clear if, for example, I could put £20k into a Flexible Cash ISA, remove £10k from it then put it in a S&S ISA, assuming that all that is reported to HMRC is the net amount at the end of the tax year.
I wasn't intending to put £20k into both at the beginning of the year, then removing £20k from the Flexible ISA, if that is what you are trying to imply.
Looking at these boards, it would seem the ISA rules have become a mess with all the different types of ISA available, and no one aware of Flexible ISAs despite them having been available for seven years 

masonic

surreysaver said:

Looking at these boards, it would seem the ISA rules have become a mess with all the different types of ISA available, and no one aware of Flexible ISAs despite them having been available for seven years 

In fairness there are over 400 threads here that include the phrase "flexible ISA" or "flexible cash ISA". It is a regular topic of discussion. Many are aware of ISA flexibility, and quite a number of providers cover it in their product FAQs. WIth apologies to Albermarle... I'd advocate spending time reading through this forum as a good way of getting up to speed with all the ISA rules.

surreysaver

masonic said:

surreysaver said:

Looking at these boards, it would seem the ISA rules have become a mess with all the different types of ISA available, and no one aware of Flexible ISAs despite them having been available for seven years 

In fairness there are over 400 threads here that include the phrase "flexible ISA" or "flexible cash ISA". It is a regular topic of discussion. Many are aware of ISA flexibility, and quite a number of providers cover it in their product FAQs. WIth apologies to Albermarle... I'd advocate spending time reading through this forum as a good way of getting up to speed with all the ISA rules.

I suppose I'd gone off ISAs due to the low interest rates over the last few years, so not kept totally up to date with the rules, only coming back to them recently.  But despite reading the Government's website, I was unable to get a clear answer to my query. Indeed, I am still unclear. From what I understand, ISA providers will only supply HMRC with the net end of year figures, so I am presuming I can take £500pm out of my Flexible ISA and put it into my S&S ISA as long as there isn't more than £20k of new money deposited at any one time. 

masonic

surreysaver said:

From what I understand, ISA providers will only supply HMRC with the net end of year figures, so I am presuming I can take £500pm out of my Flexible ISA and put it into my S&S ISA as long as there isn't more than £20k of new money deposited at any one time.

That is correct. There are further details at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/manage-isa-subscriptions-for-your-investors#flexible-isas , and a series of worked examples at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/684282/worked_examples_of_flexible_ISAs.pdf

I think the first worked example makes clear the scenario you have been considering. The second example may also be of some relevance.

surreysaver

masonic said:

surreysaver said:

From what I understand, ISA providers will only supply HMRC with the net end of year figures, so I am presuming I can take £500pm out of my Flexible ISA and put it into my S&S ISA as long as there isn't more than £20k of new money deposited at any one time.

That is correct. There are further details at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/manage-isa-subscriptions-for-your-investors#flexible-isas , and a series of worked examples at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/684282/worked_examples_of_flexible_ISAs.pdf

I think the first worked example makes clear the scenario you have been considering. The second example may also be of some relevance.

Thanks for that. The paragraph which applies to my scenario is
"Withdrawals of current year subscriptions, can effectively be replaced in any current year ISA, but cannot breach the ‘one ISA of each type per tax year’ rule."
So all legit, despite the veiled accusations from @Alexland !

jimjames

surreysaver said:

masonic said:

surreysaver said:

Looking at these boards, it would seem the ISA rules have become a mess with all the different types of ISA available, and no one aware of Flexible ISAs despite them having been available for seven years 

In fairness there are over 400 threads here that include the phrase "flexible ISA" or "flexible cash ISA". It is a regular topic of discussion. Many are aware of ISA flexibility, and quite a number of providers cover it in their product FAQs. WIth apologies to Albermarle... I'd advocate spending time reading through this forum as a good way of getting up to speed with all the ISA rules.

I suppose I'd gone off ISAs due to the low interest rates over the last few years, so not kept totally up to date with the rules, only coming back to them recently.  But despite reading the Government's website, I was unable to get a clear answer to my query. Indeed, I am still unclear. From what I understand, ISA providers will only supply HMRC with the net end of year figures, so I am presuming I can take £500pm out of my Flexible ISA and put it into my S&S ISA as long as there isn't more than £20k of new money deposited at any one time. 

My flexible cash ISA has £20k in it, as money is moved into my S&S ISA it will reduce until it is at or near zero by the end of the tax year. Until flexible ISAs that wouldn't have been possible.

Albermarle

WIth apologies to Albermarle... I'd advocate spending time reading through this forum as a good way of getting up to speed with all the ISA rules.

No need to apologise 

The last time I said that the poster got shirty about it , but some previous posters have said thanks for the tip, so....