Exeter City Council

Carrie-Ann

I am trying to establish whether or not the car park outside my council flat is classed as 'private land'

I live on a small estate of mainly council owned flats, although some are leasehold when previous tenants took advantage of the Right To Buy scheme. My flat is part of the Sheltered Housing scheme - now referred to as Older Persons Housing.

I have parked in the same disabled car park space almost every day for the last nine years as I do hold a 'Blue Badge'. I forgot to display my badge for a few hours and have received one of Premier Parks extortionate Parking Charge Notices. I appealed to them , in the first instance, but they insisted the 'fine' must be paid. I am going to appeal to POPLA and have found some fabulous advice on these pages. I understand that there is no necessity to display my badge if I am parked on private land. Exeter City Council have been giving me the runaround for days and will not confirm that it is classed as 'private land' so do you know how I can establish the facts please?

Just to be clear there are approximately 140 flats and maisonettes divided into four separate areas (courts) Each court has a car park. I am assuming that its the same situation as a supermarket where the car park land is owned by the same people who own the shop so you can approach them. I have done this with Asda and found them to be very helpful. Am I right in thinking this please?

I apologise for the rambling message but I am elderly and a bit overwhelmed. Any help would be most appreciated. Thank you.

B789

Welcome @Carrie-Ann. What does the signage where you park say? Can you show us some pictures? Can you also show us a redacted picture of the PCN? What is the location of this car park?

How long has Premier Park been "managing" the site? Were they introduced after you had started living at your address?What does your lease or tenancy agreement say about parking? Equally important is what doesn't it say about parking?

If you can start by answering these questions, we can start looking further into this.

fisherjim

You need to answer B789's questions for more help, basically if it's private land the landowner can engage a private parking contractor, if it's authority owned land there are regulations involved where the situation is different.

Fruitcake

The definitive way of identifying the landowner is to pay a few quid to the Land Registry. If it is council owned, they are not allowed to operate the car park as if it was privately owned.

In any case, you should be complaining to whomever you pay your rent.

You should also complain to your MP.

In your case you have protected characteristics as defined by the Equality Act 2010. Issuing a PCN to someone who has protected characteristics is indirect discrimination and thus a breach of the EA 2010. Once the "service provider" is aware of your disability then pursuing the charge becomes direct discrimination.

As you rightly say, the blue badge scheme does not apply on private land and in any case it is not the only indicator of a disability. Irrespective of who the landowner is, they must abide by the law (the Act) and are jointly and severally liable for the actions of the agents they employ.

In all your initial complaints you need to mention the EA 2010 and indirect discrimination. In all subsequent complaints (if the charge isn't cancelled) you need to mention direct discrimination and the EA 2010.

daveyjp

Before Land Registry check the list:

https://exeter.gov.uk/council-and-democracy/council-information/council-data/land-and-building-assets/

Go direct to the Service manager for specifics about parking control.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/steve-carnell-22aba829

This has the potential to become very 'sticky' for Exeter City Council.

ImNoExpert

Carrie-Ann said:

I am assuming that its the same situation as a supermarket where the car park land is owned by the same people who own the shop so you can approach them. I have done this with Asda and found them to be very helpful.

This isn't always the case unfortunately, as sometimes retail parks will own the land, and possibly the buildings, but the shops themselves may only rent the units, and don't always have much sway over parking rules. Although larger supermarkets do often operate a site exclusively.

Coupon-mad

Who do you pay ground rent or service charges to?

Carrie-Ann

It's a local authority housing complex and I pay a monthly rent to Exeter City Council which includes a very small charge for maintenance of communal areas like the car parks and green areas. As such there is no ground rent (other than for leaseholders who have purchased their flats). I will try to attach a sort of map

Coupon-mad

When appealing, did you admit to being the driver? Ticked a box?  Used words like 'when I parked'?

Carrie-Ann

this was what i typed on the Appeal form to Premier Park

"  I actually do have a valid disabled badge but had been out and had, unfortunately, forgotten to display it back in my windscreen. I have lived on the Shilhay Estate and parked my car in that same spot everyday for the last nine years. Just once I forgot to display my badge. The badge number is NAJE5D 0 0354Y0823 It is valid until 30/08/23 I can provide photographic evidence if required I appeal against this Parking Charge Notice on those grounds " 

Coupon-mad

Oh dear.  Don't do a POPLA appeal because you can't win it.  Mitigation is not considered by POPLA.

Get the landowner to cancel it.  No paying it!