Retaining wall problems!

WDW2010

Hi

Hoping someone can help. We have a long (37 metre!) brick wall running from the front of our property to the back of the garden. The wall needed some repairs when we purchased the house three years ago but over the last year- 6 months has really started to deteriorate.  The issue is behind our wall is an old falling to bits wall which we think is retaining, there is also loads of rubble. The houses behind are higher up and their gardens back onto the side of our garden. The pressure from the rubbish behind our brick wall plus moisture getting in we think has caused ours to start to fall down.  We know it needs replacing but we are concerned about what will happen if our wall is removed. We are not sure if the old wall marks our boundary or the wall in front does and if so does that make the neighbours responsible since their gardens are higher up? There is nothing in our title deeds or the title deeds to the houses behind and our title plan does not make it clear.  One of the houses (there are two) have reinforced their fence with breeze blocks but the other house only has a fence and gravel boards.

We have had a company round last Sunday who are doing us a quote for both replacement wall and also fence. If wall their suggestion is to use breeze blocks then a single skin of bricks in front to still maintain the look of a wall but the breeze blocks will reinforce it. If a fence, they would concrete behind. For both options the old retaining wall would not be removed just our brick wall, are these good options?  I have included photo’s which show how the wall and garden looks.

Many thanks

WDW

JohnJ76

if my understanding is that it is the responsibility of the landowner whose property is retained to maintain any retaining structure. If there is nothing in your deeds or those of your neighbours then a friendly chat over a drink in the garden and highlight the issue may be one way forward and even if they don't want to foot the cost for a full retaining wall you may find some compromise.  It may not be your responsibilty to maintain.  The wall doesnt look very high (11 or so courses approx 800ish?) so a brick faced concrete block wall would suffice, but i'd be careful of building a wall that then became the retaining wall and accidentally taking responsibility of retaining their gardens. Ideally I'd like a gap between their retaining wall and my wall/fence for any avoidance of doubt as to the ownership/maintenance rights (as in the first picture of the concrete block wall- gap- your wall) but where there is the older red brick retaining wall (does pic 4 show a old concrete fence post?) next to their fence this may be a bit trickier. 

weeg

If that's a new fence with new blockwork to the high side of the wall, odds are that's the cause of the failure. Extra weight, extra wind load.

I don't know who is responsible, but in the short term I'd drill weepholes to reduce the load on your wall.

WDW2010

JohnJ76 said:

if my understanding is that it is the responsibility of the landowner whose property is retained to maintain any retaining structure. If there is nothing in your deeds or those of your neighbours then a friendly chat over a drink in the garden and highlight the issue may be one way forward and even if they don't want to foot the cost for a full retaining wall you may find some compromise.  It may not be your responsibilty to maintain.  The wall doesnt look very high (11 or so courses approx 800ish?) so a brick faced concrete block wall would suffice, but i'd be careful of building a wall that then became the retaining wall and accidentally taking responsibility of retaining their gardens. Ideally I'd like a gap between their retaining wall and my wall/fence for any avoidance of doubt as to the ownership/maintenance rights (as in the first picture of the concrete block wall- gap- your wall) but where there is the older red brick retaining wall (does pic 4 show a old concrete fence post?) next to their fence this may be a bit trickier. 

Hi, thanks for your reply, really appreciate it. Yes that is a concrete fence post between our brick wall and the old old wall which we thought might indicate where our boundary starts (our wall being on the other side of that post). I was also under the impression that it is the owner of the property being retained that is responsible for the wall but that could be a tricky conversation! I am hesitant to pay for something that isn't our responsibility and I am aware whether we go for a fence or wall it is going to be costly due to the length (plus the wall out the front of our house needs replacing!). The wall is just about a metre high so yes not very high. The house closest to our house is fine as they have the breeze blocks and there is no old wall behind our wall at that point. We will have to see what quote the company from Sunday come back with and the companies that are due to visit. Thanks again.

WDW2010

weeg said:

If that's a new fence with new blockwork to the high side of the wall, odds are that's the cause of the failure. Extra weight, extra wind load.

I don't know who is responsible, but in the short term I'd drill weepholes to reduce the load on your wall.

There are two houses to the side of our property whose gardens back onto the wall. The one nearest our house is the one with breeze blocks and a fence above it. I am not sure when that was done but at some point between 2015 and 2022 the garage was removed and the driveway and the breeze blocks and fence done. The other house just has a fence and gravel boards and then the old old retaining wall in front of that. Their fence was replaced several weeks back as a panel blew done but we can see on our side that the gravel boards are cracked. I guess it is possible that on their side they have reinforced it more in some way although I dont think they have. 

Section62

WDW2010 said:

...I was also under the impression that it is the owner of the property being retained that is responsible for the wall but that could be a tricky conversation!

That is a common generalisation rather than a fact.  Responsibility for a retaining wall goes with whoever agreed to be responsible, which is typically the property who needed/wanted the wall to be built.  E.g. a property owner who wanted to level their plot by lowering the ground level along one boundary is likely to be the one responsible for the wall.

Sometimes there will be something in the deeds which confirms ownership/responsibility, otherwise if the two parties can't agree to share responsibility then it would be case of arguing it out in court.

WDW2010 said:

The wall is just about a metre high so yes not very high. The house closest to our house is fine as they have the breeze blocks and there is no old wall behind our wall at that point. We will have to see what quote the company from Sunday come back with and the companies that are due to visit. Thanks again.

One metre is quite a high retaining wall (relatively).

The type of wall needed depends on the retained height, soil type, additional loading, and the action of water/drainage.

Really you need a structural engineer to give you some guidance, rather than just having a quote from a builder.

I agree with weeg that the work the other side of the wall is likely to be a cause of movement, if the movement hadn't already happened previously.

WDW2010

Section62 said:

WDW2010 said:

...I was also under the impression that it is the owner of the property being retained that is responsible for the wall but that could be a tricky conversation!

That is a common generalisation rather than a fact.  Responsibility for a retaining wall goes with whoever agreed to be responsible, which is typically the property who needed/wanted the wall to be built.  E.g. a property owner who wanted to level their plot by lowering the ground level along one boundary is likely to be the one responsible for the wall.

Sometimes there will be something in the deeds which confirms ownership/responsibility, otherwise if the two parties can't agree to share responsibility then it would be case of arguing it out in court.

WDW2010 said:

The wall is just about a metre high so yes not very high. The house closest to our house is fine as they have the breeze blocks and there is no old wall behind our wall at that point. We will have to see what quote the company from Sunday come back with and the companies that are due to visit. Thanks again.

One metre is quite a high retaining wall (relatively).

The type of wall needed depends on the retained height, soil type, additional loading, and the action of water/drainage.

Really you need a structural engineer to give you some guidance, rather than just having a quote from a builder.

I agree with weeg that the work the other side of the wall is likely to be a cause of movement, if the movement hadn't already happened previously.

Thank you for your reply, much appreciated. Our house was built in 1895 and the bungalows behind were built in 1960's. As far as we are aware there has been a brick wall there since before those houses. The bungalow with the breeze blocks have certainly built their garden up higher as it used to be sloping down more.  Our garden hasn't been lowered as far as we are aware. 

Section62

WDW2010 said:

Section62 said:

Thank you for your reply, much appreciated. Our house was built in 1895 and the bungalows behind were built in 1960's. As far as we are aware there has been a brick wall there since before those houses. The bungalow with the breeze blocks have certainly built their garden up higher as it used to be sloping down more.  Our garden hasn't been lowered as far as we are aware. 

Do you know what the land was used for before the bungalows were built?

If not, there are various sources of old maps online which you could check.  E.g. this one....

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side

WDW2010

Section62 said:

WDW2010 said:

Section62 said:

Thank you for your reply, much appreciated. Our house was built in 1895 and the bungalows behind were built in 1960's. As far as we are aware there has been a brick wall there since before those houses. The bungalow with the breeze blocks have certainly built their garden up higher as it used to be sloping down more.  Our garden hasn't been lowered as far as we are aware. 

Do you know what the land was used for before the bungalows were built?

If not, there are various sources of old maps online which you could check.  E.g. this one....

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side

We were actually having a look at some maps this morning trying to determine! Certainly on maps we have viewed up to 1960's it looks like it was just a plot of land behind but can't tell what for. When our house was built, the family that owned most of the land in the area has quite a few mills. It was actually quite interesting looking it all up! 

stuart45

The advice from Section 62 about getting an SE to look at the issue is probably the best. You don't want to spend a lot of money putting back a similar wall to the one that failed without knowing the cause.

FreeBear

WDW2010 said:

Section62 said:

WDW2010 said:

Section62 said:

Thank you for your reply, much appreciated. Our house was built in 1895 and the bungalows behind were built in 1960's. As far as we are aware there has been a brick wall there since before those houses. The bungalow with the breeze blocks have certainly built their garden up higher as it used to be sloping down more.  Our garden hasn't been lowered as far as we are aware. 

Do you know what the land was used for before the bungalows were built?

If not, there are various sources of old maps online which you could check.  E.g. this one....

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side

We were actually having a look at some maps this morning trying to determine! Certainly on maps we have viewed up to 1960's it looks like it was just a plot of land behind but can't tell what for. When our house was built, the family that owned most of the land in the area has quite a few mills. It was actually quite interesting looking it all up! 

A couple of other resources worth looking at -

https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/

https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/photos/