Two metres. Two Standing Charges.

matt_drummer

matt_drummer said:

`All' you need to do is run a supply from your house to the livery to feed the lighting.

Then you can have the 3 phase supply disconnected and stop paying the standing charge.

How practical and expensive that might be, I don't know, but an electrician will be able to tell you very easily.

I gave you this answer at 13.20 on  04 April 2023.

I am not sure why it has taken nearly 3 days for you to realise that this is the answer to your problem.

matt_drummer

ZZaffy said:

macman said:

As above, run a spur to the livery yard from the house, then claim the estimated lighting cost of 700kWh as a legitimate business expense on your return. Have the second meter de-energised and removed. 
This does not affect the rewiring you have already had done, which is wholly within the livery area presumably. You just need to connect that area to the house.

Thank you.  This is the answer I was hoping for.

You had this answer nearly three days ago!

matt_drummer

ZZaffy said:

matt_drummer said:

ZZaffy said:

macman said:

The stables is a livery yard.  Not a limited company.  Self employed basis. Just fill in a short tax form each year.  Hardly make a profit.  Nine horses.

It's still a business.

A business is defined as any activity carried on with a view to making a profit.

But that does not stop you running an electricity supply to it from your house if it is physically possible.

Thank you.  Clear and precise.  Still wonder though, what the point of a business meter is if you don't have to have one.  

Or maybe the livery was there before the house?

I think you are missing the point, you can run a business from your home and use electricity from the domestic supply, there is no requirement to change to a commercial supply just because you do some work at home.

Commercial supplies are made to commercial premises, ie those that are used solely for commercial activities.

tightauldgit

ZZaffy said:

matt_drummer said:

ZZaffy said:

macman said:

The stables is a livery yard.  Not a limited company.  Self employed basis. Just fill in a short tax form each year.  Hardly make a profit.  Nine horses.

It's still a business.

A business is defined as any activity carried on with a view to making a profit.

But that does not stop you running an electricity supply to it from your house if it is physically possible.

Thank you.  Clear and precise.  Still wonder though, what the point of a business meter is if you don't have to have one.  

If you want the business on a separate supply then you need a separate meter - simple as that. 

It seems you don't need two separate supplies hence you don't need the second meter. 

Now the fun might begin when you attempt to extract yourself from your commercial energy supply contract - are you tied into a fixed term? Can you disconnect the supply without any penalties?

MultiFuelBurner

Just check your business contract has not got some horrific early exit fee.

ZZaffy

matt_drummer said:

matt_drummer said:

I gave you this answer at 13.20 on  04 April 2023.

I am not sure why it has taken nearly 3 days for you to realise that this is the answer to your problem.

I will explain my problem.  I know nothing and I am told lots.  For a  start, I was told I had 3 phase.  Turns out I don't.  I have had two expert solar panel reps visit me, and neither of them agree what I need.  I have been told by an expert that the National Grid is the only body that can remove the meter.  The National Grid tells me they do not remove meters.  In the end, because I know nothing, my mind twists and complicates fact and fiction into one giant knot.  Thank you and everyone else for all the information, and it  astounds me how people on this forum who don't know me from Adam or Eve really try to help.  I have read all posts and it is good to read that nearly all the posts come to the same conclusion.  I should not have had to ask these questions, my suppliers should have answered all my queries, but apart from knowing exactly how to take your money, they know little else. Would not surprise me, if somebody in the near future taps me on the shoulder and says 'I reckon you need three meters.'  Once again, thanks Matt.  

matt_drummer

I am glad we could help.

Just get a qualified and reliable electrician round to advise you.

We don't know how far it is from your house to the stables and what complications there may be in running a supply from you house to the stables.

If you can do it, and it's not too costly, get it done.

Then, when you are no longer connected to the not needed commercial supply you can get it disconnected and the standing charge will cease.

As others have said, there will probably be a charge for disconnecting the supply and you need to find out whether the stable supply is under contract and what, if any, the exit fees are. I would find this out before doing anything else.

Once you have all of this information, and the likely costs, you can make an informed decision about what is best for you in the long term.

matt_drummer

And some other bits of advice, not energy related.

What about the water supply? Do you have two of those?

And `employees'.

I am an accountant. I would advise you to take professional advice on the employment status of anybody working in your business. Being self employed is not a choice that the worker or business owner takes, it is determined by the facts of the arrangement such as hours of work, who provides equipment, where the person works, whether they work fixed hours and whether they can send somebody else in their place.

You could be in for a nasty shock if HM Revenue and Customs rule that workers you consider to be self employed are actually employed.

Finally, make sure you are properly insured as a business in all respects including employers and public liability.

ZZaffy

Thanks Matt. Wish you were a relative.
Insured for several millions.  
There is one stable girl.  She does approx 16 hours a week.  Sometimes 20 hours if there are extra bits and pieces. She determines her own hours. Her hours are paid for by direct debit.  All equipment, apart from the odd broom etc. and a wheelbarrow belongs to the yard.  The liveries of which there are six have their own grooming stuff.  Another women who keeps her pony here for free, will help out for no payment if we are stuck.  The business rates are zero rated.   Originally wanted to be a limited company but was advised for all the effort it would entail, best to be self employed on such a small set up.  I will run these details by the tax man and see if all is okay.  Thank you. 

matt_drummer

All sounds quite good.

I would be slightly concerned that the stable girl is an employee.

Rather than speak to someone at HMRC I would speak to a qualified accountant, it will be worth the small cost to set your mind at ease.

If you speak to HMRC you have no idea who they are or their level of knowledge and experience. They will also be unlikely to give you advice on what you should do, in the nicest possible way, they decide what you should have done and penalise you if they feel it is appropriate.