John Lewis/HSBC failing to let me have my refund from my "old" credit card

mattheal

Is anyone else having their credit card company hold onto their refunds for no good reason?

In the latter part of 2022, of John Lewis forced its credit card customers to move from John Lewis/HSBC to John Lewis/NewDay

 A refund of £120.00 was been issued to me by a merchant, on 7th March 2023, to my original method of payment.  Namely my “old” John Lewish/HSBC credit card.  The merchant, (a well respected company), has provided me with computer printout evidence that their part of the refund process was successful. “Acquirer response: Approved (00: Approved or completed successfully)”.  

However, John Lewis/HSBC had already closed credit card accounts with a balance of £0.00.  This included closing my account, removing my online access and John Lewis/HSBC are denying that they have my refund! 

John Lewis/HSBC are saying that it is not their fault that I haven’t received my refund, as they haven’t received it either!  Unlike the merchant, John Lewis/HSBC seem to be unable to provide evidence of the transaction or any rejection of the transaction.

Have John Lewis/HSBC or any other credit card provider held on to your money too?  Has the issue been rectified?  If so, how did you achieve this?  

MorningcoffeeIV

Escalate a complaint. If not resolved, FOS.

born_again

mattheal said:

Is anyone else having their credit card company hold onto their refunds for no good reason?

In the latter part of 2022, of John Lewis forced its credit card customers to move from John Lewis/HSBC to John Lewis/NewDay

 A refund of £120.00 was been issued to me by a merchant, on 7th March 2023, to my original method of payment.  Namely my “old” John Lewish/HSBC credit card.  The merchant, (a well respected company), has provided me with computer printout evidence that their part of the refund process was successful. “Acquirer response: Approved (00: Approved or completed successfully)”.  

However, John Lewis/HSBC had already closed credit card accounts with a balance of £0.00.  This included closing my account, removing my online access and John Lewis/HSBC are denying that they have my refund! 

John Lewis/HSBC are saying that it is not their fault that I haven’t received my refund, as they haven’t received it either!  Unlike the merchant, John Lewis/HSBC seem to be unable to provide evidence of the transaction or any rejection of the transaction.

Have John Lewis/HSBC or any other credit card provider held on to your money too?  Has the issue been rectified?  If so, how did you achieve this?  

Refunds do not require approval. Also that print out means nothing.
You need to get them to provide the ARN (acquirer reference number) for the transaction, as that is the only real proof.

WillPS

Also nobody was forced to move to NewDay. They invited customers to move, but you didn't have to.

goater78

It’s hard for a company to provide evidence that they didn’t receive something. 

daveyjp

I had a refund to a zero balance JL/HSBC putting it in credit.  The refund was paid by BACS, however it was November 22 when the account was closed but the app was still operating and I could check the account and contact them by secure message.

You now need to call JL - 0345 300 3833

mattheal

Thanks all.  Although as a reviewer correctly stated we weren't forcefully moved to NewDay, we were forcefully moved off the HSBC platform.  I did try calling JL on 0345 300 3833, twice.  But they were of no help.  I have also provided them with the ARN number. I'm now escalating the case.

Marchitiello

Just to be clear, as far as I understand it was a Co-branded product but in effect it was run by HSBC, which is who you as a customer signed up the financial agreement with. The particular co-branding agreement JL may have made at start up with HSBC May have included the clause related to customer portfolio being owned by JL and thus at conclusion of the JL/HSBC deal, HSBC would not have been able to offer ex JL cobranded customer an HSBC vanilla product (as it has happened many times with other providers like MBNA with Amazon and other Co-branded card run by them and Santander with some store cards). Now, the owning of the customer portfolio may indeed complicate a bit the thing with chasing an income payment into a closed  account, but just to be clear, unless they have made provision for a dedicated joint team to deal with those ex JL queries, normally you would expect to make all your queries and complaints to HSBC only as JL has no part to play with this any longer .

WillPS

Marchitiello said:

Just to be clear, as far as I understand it was a Co-branded product but in effect it was run by HSBC, which is who you as a customer signed up the financial agreement with. The particular co-branding agreement JL may have made at start up with HSBC May have included the clause related to customer portfolio being owned by JL and thus at conclusion of the JL/HSBC deal, HSBC would not have been able to offer ex JL cobranded customer an HSBC vanilla product (as it has happened many times with other providers like MBNA with Amazon and other Co-branded card run by them and Santander with some store cards). Now, the owning of the customer portfolio may indeed complicate a bit the thing with chasing an income payment into a closed  account, but just to be clear, unless they have made provision for a dedicated joint team to deal with those ex JL queries, normally you would expect to make all your queries and complaints to HSBC only as JL has no part to play with this any longer .

It wasn't a co-branded product, you are mistaken. The customers had a credit agreement with and a card issued by John Lewis Financial Services.

The customer had no agreement with HSBC. If HSBC (or New Day, or anyone else) wanted the customers they would have had to buy them from JLFS. That HSBC were part owner and effectively running the show does not mean they'd have been able to sell a core asset without the permission of the other JV partner.

In addition, unless we hear otherwise JLP are very much still a joint venture partner in John Lewis Financial Services and will be until the operation is completely wound up.

Marchitiello

WillPS said:

Marchitiello said:

Just to be clear, as far as I understand it was a Co-branded product but in effect it was run by HSBC, which is who you as a customer signed up the financial agreement with. The particular co-branding agreement JL may have made at start up with HSBC May have included the clause related to customer portfolio being owned by JL and thus at conclusion of the JL/HSBC deal, HSBC would not have been able to offer ex JL cobranded customer an HSBC vanilla product (as it has happened many times with other providers like MBNA with Amazon and other Co-branded card run by them and Santander with some store cards). Now, the owning of the customer portfolio may indeed complicate a bit the thing with chasing an income payment into a closed  account, but just to be clear, unless they have made provision for a dedicated joint team to deal with those ex JL queries, normally you would expect to make all your queries and complaints to HSBC only as JL has no part to play with this any longer .

It wasn't a co-branded product, you are mistaken. The customers had a credit agreement with and a card issued by John Lewis Financial Services.

The customer had no agreement with HSBC. If HSBC (or New Day, or anyone else) wanted the customers they would have had to buy them from JLFS. That HSBC were part owner and effectively running the show does not mean they'd have been able to sell a core asset without the permission of the other JV partner.

In addition, unless we hear otherwise JLP are very much still a joint venture partner in John Lewis Financial Services and will be until the operation is completely wound up.

Edited to completely change my answer in light of the below from JL site:

”You will no longer be able to use your existing Partnership Card (managed by John Lewis Financial Services Limited which is a subsidiary of HSBC UK Bank plc)”

JLFS was a subsidiary of HSBC the same way as FD or M&S banks still are. So they may still have a department in place to deal with those queries but effectively you are not dealing with JL at all. 

WillPS

Marchitiello said:

WillPS said:

Marchitiello said:

Just to be clear, as far as I understand it was a Co-branded product but in effect it was run by HSBC, which is who you as a customer signed up the financial agreement with. The particular co-branding agreement JL may have made at start up with HSBC May have included the clause related to customer portfolio being owned by JL and thus at conclusion of the JL/HSBC deal, HSBC would not have been able to offer ex JL cobranded customer an HSBC vanilla product (as it has happened many times with other providers like MBNA with Amazon and other Co-branded card run by them and Santander with some store cards). Now, the owning of the customer portfolio may indeed complicate a bit the thing with chasing an income payment into a closed  account, but just to be clear, unless they have made provision for a dedicated joint team to deal with those ex JL queries, normally you would expect to make all your queries and complaints to HSBC only as JL has no part to play with this any longer .

It wasn't a co-branded product, you are mistaken. The customers had a credit agreement with and a card issued by John Lewis Financial Services.

The customer had no agreement with HSBC. If HSBC (or New Day, or anyone else) wanted the customers they would have had to buy them from JLFS. That HSBC were part owner and effectively running the show does not mean they'd have been able to sell a core asset without the permission of the other JV partner.

In addition, unless we hear otherwise JLP are very much still a joint venture partner in John Lewis Financial Services and will be until the operation is completely wound up.

Thanks for the clarification, it was a JV then, a bit like when M&S bank first launched, before being taken over completely by HSBC.

that will explain why the customers account could not be taken over by HSBC with one of their Vanilla card.

So has JLFS been liquidated or is it still in operation and/or who would run those queries? 

Back to the OP it may be worth to check if the vendor that issued a refund can re-call it and arrange a different refund method. 

Yes exactly. JLFS is still operational although recent returns suggest it is dormant.

I suspect JLFS calls and stuff are handled by HSBC, probably the same people who work on equivalent HSBC, FD, M&S credit cards. I'd imagine there's some sort of service agreement between the two entities.