Rental deposit. Is smoke damage from an open fire legitimate wear and tear?

BillieBoy

Hi everyone. I’m asking this question on behalf of my SIL.

She has moved out of her rental property and is in a disagreement with her Landlord over the amount of the deposit to be retained. It hasn’t been raised as a dispute yet, it is still in the negotiation stages. The EA is refusing to assist and says that she needs to deal direct with the LL who sent her the below text last night. 

I have a few questions and perhaps you helpful people will have some views.

1. If a LL provides a working open fire does the tenant need to decorate to hide the inevitable smoke traces on the walls when they leave? Is this not just west and tear from an open fire?

2. Using a handyman is going to take much longer than a decorator, should she have to pay the extra days involved in using a tradesman that isn’t fit for purpose? £150 is what you would pay per day for a decorator to paint in her area

3. He mentions change of colour but it was very subtle because the paint he left had gone dry in the tins so she had to buy a substitute.

as for his comments on her spa break, I have no words…

Her deposit was £900 and he would like to retain £500. Is it reasonable?

Hi 

I understand you are not happy at the costs for redecorating the house.

At our meeting when you said you said you had to leave and the reasons, I was understanding and wanted to help but was surprised to see on face book you enjoying a luxury weekend at at an expensive spa resort which did not give the impression you did not have the time or money to sort the house out.

The condition of the decorations was much poorer than I had imagined and you had said you were going to do some redecorating before leaving.

The lounge needs full repaint as you know due to the smoke from the fire and the colour change.

The dining area was poorly painted and has to be taken back to the original light colour.

The main bedroom has to be repainted due to the change of colour, the mirror material stuck to the wall is difficult to remove having tried one and pulled the plaster off.

The stairs and landing are In particularly popular state and needs full repair plus much of the white work. 

We have employed a handy man rather than a decorator because we could not get one for some months and he has estimated 5-6 days and I have purchased the pains and materials at £260.

Most of that in the garage had gone bad or got rust in of the cans.

We pay the guy £150 a day

At best the decoration is £1000 and the garden £100 for the back over grown hedge and the same to sort out the front.

Not to happy about the damage to the right hand garage door which has been backed into a good number of times. We can push it back straight but not get all the dent lines out of it without replacing the door.

If some effort had neen made on the decorative state it would have helped but as we see it we have a minimum cost of £1200 plus the door repair so a contribution of Half is very reasonable and most landlords would just get a professional in and charge whatever the cost .

We would settle on £500 to settle the matter which I trust will be acceptable.

Novice_investor101

You’ll need to add some more details such as how long she lived there, what the condition of the decorating was when she moved in etc before anyone can offer an opinion on wear & tear. 

If the deposit is protected (it should be) then she can dispute it. The Landlord cannot charge for betterment. 

comeandgo

What was she doing to get smoke from an open fire on her walls?  That is not wear and tear, that’s carelessness.  You can in fact clean off light smoke damage.   Did she damage the garage door?  I think she is getting off lightly with £500.

BillieBoy

comeandgo said:

What was she doing to get smoke from an open fire on her walls?  That is not wear and tear, that’s carelessness.  You can in fact clean off light smoke damage.   Did she damage the garage door?  I think she is getting off lightly with £500.

Can’t disagree with garage door which is why I didn’t bring it up. Having been in the property whilst the fire has been in use it it was used exactly as it should have been and the amount of soot created is no more than would be expected from any open fireplace. My own fireplace creates soot on the chimney breast and coving 10’ above it despite the chimney being swept each year and the chimney being warmed before the fire is set.

ArbitraryRandom

As with all things, it would depend on the degree and what steps your SIL took to avoid damage - A fire used correctly (for example cleaned annually and fuelled by dry logs) should not be resulting a significant amount smoke entering the house.  Any damage to the chimney or cowl resulting in smoke entering the property should have been reported to the landlord, who may have advised the fire should not be used or carried out repairs. 

i.e. a small amount of faint discolouration directly above the fire is very different to black soot stains covering the wall and ceilings with blistering of the paint on the breast caused by the fire being run too hot. 

I would also note that, if she is only being asked to pay £500, then she is already not being asked to pay for the extra days required by the handyman (but you may be wrong to assume a decorator would do the work faster, depending on the number of coats/stain block required). 

However, if your SIL disputes the deductions and thinks £500 is unreasonable, then the best option might be for her to simply request her deposit back, wait for the LL to provide his proof, then dispute and allow the adjudication system to make the final decision. 

jonnydeppiwish!

Still the key point is how long was your SiL living there? Also, does she have pictures when she moved in?

GDB2222

“ 2. Using a handyman is going to take much longer than a decorator, should she have to pay the extra days involved in using a tradesman that isn’t fit for purpose? £150 is what you would pay per day for a decorator to paint in her area”

I don’t think that is a good argument. You would need to get a decorator to quote. The LL has a handyman, but might need to wait for a decorator. There are drying times to consider, so it may make little difference, anyway. 

theoretica

Was the deposit protected?  The protection schemes are for arbitrating in exactly these situations.  (and if it were not protected she is probably in a strong position)

sheramber

A decorator may do the job quicker but charge twice as much per day.

RAS

The basics are:

How long did she live in the house?

Has she got a copy of the in-going inventory?

When she compares that with the outgoing inventory, what damage is evident?

If she lived there 6 months in a newly painted house, then the LL will be entitled more than if she was there 5 years.

Which is it?

EssexHebridean

Allowing for the garage door aspect, I'd suggest that she might be very sensible to accept the £500 and consider herself fairly fortunate. If she argues further, the LL just could decide that actually, he'd like his garage door replaced altogether after all, and it might be tricky to describe that as unreasonable allowing that it sounds like she admits to having hit it.  

I'd also suggest that she might want to tighten up her FB security settings - as although the LL possibly shouldn't have mentioned that he'd been snooping there, it does at least point out that presumably any random individual can also look at her account and find out - for example, when she is away from home and the house is empty...