How to Protect Parents Assets and avoid 'Deprivation of Assets'?

Pennylane

Sorry for your loss.  Your Dad may never need a care home - our solicitor told us that only 3% of people end their days in care homes. Most die at home or in hospital.

it’s your Dad’s money anyway so if he DOES have to go into care then he deserves the best care possible not some grotty place. I viewed 14 one summer and would not have wanted my Mum in 12 of them and the other two had very long waiting lists. 

Don’t get involved with these dodgy Trusts and don’t think you will get away with disposing of money or assets because you won’t.  I know 2 people who thought they could be clever but had to pay it all back.

Gavin83

Pennylane said:

Don’t get involved with these dodgy Trusts and don’t think you will get away with disposing of money or assets because you won’t.  I know 2 people who thought they could be clever but had to pay it all back.

I used to work in this area and I know of one case where their life was basically ruined due to deprivation of assets. Admittedly it wasn’t just the deprivation, it was also their extreme stubbornness and belief nothing would happen.

Given councils have less and less money as the years go on but more commitments I expect their actions against deprivation of assets will become more aggressive.

wolvoman

It’s not difficult.

School fees
Family holidays
Jewellery
House repairs
Fuel
Insurances

There are so many items that the OP could get his dad to pay for which would reduce net worth.

bobster2

wolvoman said:

It’s not difficult.

School fees
Family holidays
Jewellery
House repairs
Fuel
Insurances

There are so many items that the OP could get his dad to pay for which would reduce net worth.

Not that easy.

https://proceduresonline.com/trixcms2/media/11503/deprivation-of-assets-practice-guidance.pdf

Deprivation of Assets - Practice Guidance identifies many of those as possible ways deprivation of assets may occur...

• converting assets into another form that must be disregarded from the means tested financial assessment e.g. personal possessions.
• assets have been used to purchase an investment bond with life insurance such that the intended recipient of the bond is another person
• reducing capital through substantial expenditure at short notice on items such as expensive holidays or a cash purchase for a new car
• substantial expenditure has been incurred suddenly and is out of character with the previous spending
• selling assets for less than the true market value
• giving away or selling the right to an income from an occupational pension

p00hsticks

bobster2 said:

wolvoman said:

It’s not difficult.

School fees
Family holidays
Jewellery
House repairs
Fuel
Insurances

There are so many items that the OP could get his dad to pay for which would reduce net worth.

Not that easy.

https://proceduresonline.com/trixcms2/media/11503/deprivation-of-assets-practice-guidance.pdf

Deprivation of Assets - Practice Guidance identifies many of those as possible ways deprivation of assets may occur...

• converting assets into another form that must be disregarded from the means tested financial assessment e.g. personal possessions.
• assets have been used to purchase an investment bond with life insurance such that the intended recipient of the bond is another person
• reducing capital through substantial expenditure at short notice on items such as expensive holidays or a cash purchase for a new car
• substantial expenditure has been incurred suddenly and is out of character with the previous spending
• selling assets for less than the true market value
• giving away or selling the right to an income from an occupational pension

And even if the Local Authority doesn't regard it as Deprivation of Assets, the fact remains that if you give away the majority of  your assets, then if you do need care you are going to have very little say in what you get and how and where it's provided.

Money buys you choice. 

It's not selfish to hang on to money that you have spent all your life accumulating to ensure that as far as possible your final years are spent as comfortably as you can make them. If there's some left over for your family after you've gone, that's great, but they shouldn't be expecting or relying on any inheritance. 

sheramber

Does he want to end up in a grotty care home  with little in the way of services or interest, many miles away from his family as he would be allocated a place where there was one and it would necessarily be a local one.?

Or would like to be comfortable in a pleasant place that was chosen by him/you?

Pennylane

wolvoman said:

It’s not difficult.

School fees
Family holidays
Jewellery
House repairs
Fuel
Insurances

There are so many items that the OP could get his dad to pay for which would reduce net worth.

But could you live with yourself?  Disposing of assets so your parent gets placed in a poor care home and the rest of us have to pay their bill?

someone I know persuaded her Mum many years ago to sell her bungalow and give her and her daughters substantial sums of money from the proceeds.  She then got a very small rented property via a village housing society.  When she needed more care they looked at care homes and the daughter was looking at all sorts of expensive homes because she very wrongly assumed you had a choice!  I pointed out to her that social services will only pay a very limited amount so that rules out any really nice homes and you get just the most basic which is often rated “unsatisfactory”.  

She was placed in one of these and it was dreadful so they had to move her to a better one and pay a lot of top up fee. They also wangled some sort of Trust or Bond with the money left from the sale of the bungalow after she and her daughters took their share.  As I understand it the Grandma gets a very small amount every month and the rest is untouched.  I asked her how it benefits her Mum if nobody can touch it and she said “it doesn’t really but will benefit  us when she has gone”.😱

i don’t know how others on here feel but I couldn’t sleep at night if I had cooked up a scheme like that but she seems pleased that she thinks she has fooled the authorities. 

BooJewels

Pennylane said:

wolvoman said:

It’s not difficult.

School fees
Family holidays
Jewellery
House repairs
Fuel
Insurances

There are so many items that the OP could get his dad to pay for which would reduce net worth.

[...]

i don’t know how others on here feel but I couldn’t sleep at night if I had cooked up a scheme like that but she seems pleased that she thinks she has fooled the authorities. 

Me neither Pennylane - as mentioned earlier, my parents were both in the same very nice private care home at the end and the peace of mind it gave my sister and I was absolutely priceless.  It wasn't just the care they each received - but the wider family too - they were kind and supportive to all of us as an entity - I cannot fault the care they both had.  No amount of money would make me relinquish that.

My sister and I were discussing this recently, as she still works as a nurse, but having inherited from our parents she gets a bit of stick from work colleagues about having a bit of money in the bank.  But to us, it feels like slightly dirty money - you don't feel you can spend it on anything frivolous or unnecessary - we both feel like we need to make it count - and only spend it in ways they'd approve of or have value.  I fully intend to ring fence some of it for my own care - because I want the same peace of mind in my future.

theshed

I came to this forum looking for advice and I find a lot of judgemental people.
The clue is in the name MONEY SAVING Expert. The OP is asking how best to protect assets, not defraud anyone.
I am in a similar situation with my Dad and I can't tell you how proud he is thinking he can leave an inheritance for his Children and Grandchildren.
This is someone who has worked his whole life, from National Service onwards, coming from a deprived background and living in rented accommodation for most of that time. The total inheritance is under £100,000 including house.
It is particularly abhorrent that some have suggested care would be substandard if not paid for.

marycanary

theshed said:

It is particularly abhorrent that some have suggested care would be substandard if not paid for.

All care is paid for, there is no magic care tree which provides free care. Either you and your family pay or the rest of us pay for you via our council tax and general taxation. In the former case, you have choice and control, in the latter, you get what you are given.