Advice on dealing with tradesman (aircon)

Chrism899

Hi all, appreciate this may be a long winded post but please bear Aith me as I am after some advice. 

I had an air conditioning unit fitted at the start of February by a local company. I paid the deposit that the requested prior to starting and they turned up on the day. 

Prior to them attending I had put a pencil mark on the wall to indicate the centre, I knew they would probably remeasure however I did it anyway. On arrival the engineer asked where the unit was going internally and I stated dead centre of the wall, I had already moved the bed and all furniture out of the way so they had a clear workspace. 

Around 1.5 hours into the work they called me to check the positioning of the unit, I stood at the door and looked across the room and I was focused that it was alot further down the wall in height than I had anticipated, but when the engineer explained why I was fine with that and okayed the position. 

Once they had bored the main hole through the wall and fed pipes through to outside and installed the unit internally, they cleaned up and went outside. I wandered upto the room to admire the new unit and on pushing the bed back into position, noticed the unit wasn't centre, it was approximately 8 inches off centre (this may not seem much but everything else in the room is centred and so is very noticeable)

I went straight out to inform them it was in the wrong place, and although apologetic they stated it would take too long to move and now the hole was bored there was nothing that could be done. I even asked for a second hole to be bored and said I would fill and repair the first hole myself if needed. They still said that there wouldn't be enough time to finish the job if they moved it and that they had another job booked in the next day and so couldn't return then. 

I went back inside feeling rather deflated and angry knowing i had okayed the position without checking it was dead centre. 

60 minutes later after I had wound myself up I went back out and pleaded with them to find a way to move the unit. The engineer now said they were an hour and a half into the outside works and definitely didn't have time to move it now. 

Long story short I asked 3 times for them to move the unit whilst they were at my property and although very apologetic, they finished the install and left. 

When paying the final bill I decided to retain some of the outstanding balance and sent a lengthy email stating the reasons why, and asked the engineer to return and remedy the problem whenever was suitable for him. I received no reply. 

Almost 2 months later I have now had a reply, he has disputed everything in my email, said he measured the centre from two marks on the skirting boards (even though there is only one to show me where the bed should be) and has said I okayed the position of the unit and due to that "I do not accept this is a genuine commercial dispute. I believe this is an attempt to avoid full payment" and then goes on to say he will contact his solicitor to commence debt collection proceedings. 

The money retained was £400 as I believed this was a reasonable amount. I have simply asked him to return and put the problem right at which point I will pay the outstanding balance. 

Am I right in the fact I am giving him plenty of opportunity to return at a time best for him, and offering to then settle the balance? 

I intend on emailing back again offering him the opportunity to remedy the work as that is genuinely all I want doing. I've even offered to do the prep work before he comes so most of the work is done for him. Is there anything else I can do, or any other advice? 

Many thanks 

Risteard

If you agreed to the positioning then it's hard to see how you have a valid dispute.

MalMonroe

Hi,

You say "I went back inside feeling rather deflated and angry knowing i had okayed the position without checking it was dead centre." So you were angry with yourself for allowing it to happen. And although you say you want the work to be remedied, you actually agreed to what they were doing at the time they were doing it. So as far as they are concerned, they did exactly as you asked.

It's difficult to find a way around this because they're right. 

You also say "Am I right in the fact I am giving him plenty of opportunity to return at a time best for him, and offering to then settle the balance?"

And it seems that you are not right. They did the job you asked them to do and they did it to your specifications. You have acknowledged that you okayed the position of the unit before they fitted it. There's no reason to withhold any payment and if this went to court, they would probably win.

Following your query "I intend on emailing back again offering him the opportunity to remedy the work as that is genuinely all I want doing. I've even offered to do the prep work before he comes so most of the work is done for him. Is there anything else I can do, or any other advice?"

All I can advise is that you ask them to give you a new quote to remedy the work that they carried out correctly because they did not do anything wrong, from what you say.

From their point of view, you asked them to do a job, you checked exactly what they were doing and you okayed the position of the unit before they fitted it. Now they want payment in full. It isn't unreasonable.

Although you are understandably upset, it isn't their fault. 

These are my own thoughts and opinions of course but from what you have said, they seem to have done their job according to your exact requirements and you should therefore pay them for it.

cjdew

Around 1.5 hours into the work they called me to check the positioning of the unit, I stood at the door and looked across the room and I was focused that it was alot further down the wall in height than I had anticipated, but when the engineer explained why I was fine with that and okayed the position


You don't have a leg to stand on due to the above. Doing another massive hole in a wall for just 6 inches is never ever going to be a good idea anyway. 

Walk away before this drags you into unecessary and fruitless battle. Move things slightly in your room to make yourself feel better. Focus on other things in your property you like and the many other positives you have. 

I cannot express enough how fruitless this is. And unfair to the supplier. 

markin

If you want exact precision sadly you have to mark it all out yourself, As you didn't get a tape measure out to check and said ok, you don't really have a leg to stand on.

tacpot12

Sadly, I think the above advice is all correct. The tradesman didn't install the unit where you initially specified it, but you agreed to their subsequent proposal. The difference will be noticable to you, because you knew what the original specification was, but for anyone else viewing the room, it will not look odd at all. Most people don't notice when things are not perfect. 

MalMonroe's advice is correct, the best thing to do now, if you want it respositioned, is to write back and say that having taken advice you understand that you were completely wrong to dispute the installation and have paid them in full, but that you do want to have the unit repositioned and would like them to requote to do this work. 

Just as an observation for others, I would say that if you are having work done in your home, you need to keep an eye on the contractors, and stop them it looks like they are about to put something in the wrong place. They will have strong opinions on why things need to go in a certain place, based on their experience and their quotation  - they will have assumed that the job can be done as simply as possible. Any complexities need to have been agreed in writing before hand. If you are in a discussion with a contractor and you agree something, you are bound by that agreement and there will be NO opportunity to change your mind. So be tough with them, take a reasonable amount of time to consider what they are proposing to do, and if you are not happy, consider what will happen if you stop them working and send them away. Is the relationship such that you know you will be able to get them back in a few weeks to restart the job? Can you cope if your heating system or new wardrobes are not installed for another month? Contractors will have other jobs booked in for at least two weeks and usually a month ahead, and they will not prioritise you if you are asking for something that wasn't specified at the outset of the job.  If the quality of the installation is vital to you, it is better to stop them doing the wrong thing, but this may be very costly, so you need to think about it hard, and compromise if this is possible.  

ThisIsWeird

Blimey, unanimous.

This company did nothing wrong? I think it's obvious that they did - they positioned the unit incorrectly. Based on what we've been told, Chris made it repeatedly clear, in more than one way, that the unit should be central. 

And they got it wrong by 200mm. And seemingly the guy messed up by taking marks from the skirting board, and not by actually measuring and halving the wall width.

Yes, Chris seemingly 'ok'd the position, but was distracted by the unexpected height position of the unit. In any event, if told to position it 'centrally',  it isn't really a layperson's task to confirm it's central enough.

Q. What 'should' Chris have done when asked if the position was 'ok'? Should they have brought out a tape measure and asked the guy 'to hold one end, ta much, so I can check whether you are competent'? Should they have said 'hang on until I reposition the bed and all the furniture to check it's all central'?

Surely not.

Chris assumed they'd have this degree of competence at least, and was in any case distracted by the unexpected height of the unit, so wasn't able to detect their positioning mistake at the time.

These guys got it wrong. They were given clear instructions, in two different forms, and still got it wrong. They cannot absolve themselves from all responsibility just by asking a layperson, "that look ok to you?"

I can understand them not being able to put it right at the time, assuming they were telling the truth about having another job to go to that day, but they also claimed there was simply no alternative but to leave it where it is. Really? 

It's certainly not a solid case; I suspect it may come down to how clearly Chris can demonstrate that they did mark the wall, and did make it sooo clear the required central position; can you evidence this at all? But, there is little (actually, no) doubt that the error was the installer's. 

Let's put this another way; had Chris said "I want it central, and I've even left an accurate mark there - I'm off to work, lock up when you leave please!", would folk be landing any culpability at the OP's feet then? Or, when the guy asked Chris to check it's ok, had Chris been busy and just called up, "Is it in the exact middle?!" "Yes, it is!" "Cool - I'm happy!", would Chris still be liable? Surely not.

I'd suggest that this co has very little chance of successfully suing you for the balance. Their pernicious suggestion that you are doing this just to avoid payment would raise my hackles, and I'm not sure how angry I'd be at them for this; they have compounded the situation a great deal by this approach. Chris made it perfectly clear that what they want is for it be be repositioned.

Chris, do you have LegProt on your house insurance? If so, call them for their advice.

Do you know the make and model of the internal unit? I wonder if the supply pipes and hoses enter the unit around 200mm from the centre? If so, that would be good evidence of their mistake.

Doozergirl

ThisIsWeird said:

Blimey, unanimous.

This company did nothing wrong? I think it's obvious that they did - they positioned the unit incorrectly. Based on what we've been told, Chris made it repeatedly clear, in more than one way, that the unit should be central. 

And they got it wrong by 200mm. And seemingly the guy messed up by taking marks from the skirting board, and not by actually measuring and halving the wall width.

Yes, Chris seemingly 'ok'd the position, but was distracted by the unexpected height position of the unit. In any event, if told to position it 'centrally',  it isn't really a layperson's task to confirm it's central enough.

Q. What 'should' Chris have done when asked if the position was 'ok'? Should they have brought out a tape measure and asked the guy 'to hold one end, ta much, so I can check whether you are competent'? Should they have said 'hang on until I reposition the bed and all the furniture to check it's all central'?

Surely not.

Chris assumed they'd have this degree of competence at least, and was in any case distracted by the unexpected height of the unit, so wasn't able to detect their positioning mistake at the time.

These guys got it wrong. They were given clear instructions, in two different forms, and still got it wrong. They cannot absolve themselves from all responsibility just by asking a layperson, "that look ok to you?"

I can understand them not being able to put it right at the time, assuming they were telling the truth about having another job to go to that day, but they also claimed there was simply no alternative but to leave it where it is. Really? 

It's certainly not a solid case; I suspect it may come down to how clearly Chris can demonstrate that they did mark the wall, and did make it sooo clear the required central position; can you evidence this at all? But, there is little (actually, no) doubt that the error was the installer's. 

Let's put this another way; had Chris said "I want it central, and I've even left an accurate mark there - I'm off to work, lock up when you leave please!", would folk be landing any culpability at the OP's feet then? Or, when the guy asked Chris to check it's ok, had Chris been busy and just called up, "Is it in the exact middle?!" "Yes, it is!" "Cool - I'm happy!", would Chris still be liable? Surely not.

I'd suggest that this co has very little chance of successfully suing you for the balance. Their pernicious suggestion that you are doing this just to avoid payment would raise my hackles, and I'm not sure how angry I'd be at them for this; they have compounded the situation a great deal by this approach. Chris made it perfectly clear that what they want is for it be be repositioned.

Chris, do you have LegProt on your house insurance? If so, call them for their advice.

Do you know the make and model of the internal unit? I wonder if the supply pipes and hoses enter the unit around 200mm from the centre? If so, that would be good evidence of their mistake.

I'm trying to recall a time when you haven't agreed with an OP. 

No solicitor is going to take on a £400 dispute on either side of the argument.  They'd have to stop work after spending the winnings in about an hour and a half.  

Life's too short to bother about a few inches, let alone start a legal case over it or even write a long post about it.   

danrv

ThisIsWeird said:

I wonder if the supply pipes and hoses enter the unit around 200mm from the centre? 

That could be the case. The hole is centered but the unit is offset.
I had three air handlers installed but they’re higher up on the wall. As long as it’s level, I’d just leave it be. Really not worth fussing over.

Risteard

ThisIsWeird said:

Q. What 'should' Chris have done when asked if the position was 'ok'? Should they have brought out a tape measure and asked the guy 'to hold one end, ta much, so I can check whether you are competent'? Should they have said 'hang on until I reposition the bed and all the furniture to check it's all central'

How many Chrises are there?

Eldi_Dos

Risteard said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Q. What 'should' Chris have done when asked if the position was 'ok'? Should they have brought out a tape measure and asked the guy 'to hold one end, ta much, so I can check whether you are competent'? Should they have said 'hang on until I reposition the bed and all the furniture to check it's all central'

How many Chrises are there?

899 apparently