Asbestos - survey vs self sample testing?

_Sam_

The bungalow we bought was built in 1950s and has textured ceilings, walls, and some board nailed to the garage ceiling that looks it might be asbestos. 

We are starting work on the garage soon and I'm not sure what is the best way to go about testing it for asbestos. The self-sampling cost is about £50 for one sample, which is much cheaper than getting a refurbishment/demolition survey done, which makes me think is it in any way inferior as to being able to correctly identify asbestos?

Also I'm a bit worried that the self-sampling is marketed as "safe", but their instructions simply say wear a mask and gloves and use a stanley knife or a screwdriver to hack out a 3cm square chunk - but wouldn't this leave the room full of fibers as a result - for example here they take a bit more precautions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhabvk2N2oU

danrv

_Sam_ said:

The bungalow we bought was built in 1950s and has textured ceilings, walls, and some board nailed to the garage ceiling that looks it might be asbestos. 

Is the board in the garage painted/sealed? 
I know that asbestos was used on garage roofs but not sure about for ceilings. 

_Sam_

It isn’t painted, the garage is integral so has the same roof as bungalow mostly. Our electrician thought the board might be asbestos., although whoever installed the garage doors had clearly not bothered, as they screwed the equipment and switch into the board.. Just took a photo:

danrv

It could be AIB. Article here:
https://www.keyasbestos.co.uk/case-studies/how-to-convert-a-berrylands-garage-with-an-asbestos-board-ceiling/
I’d be surprised though if all the ceilings in the property are boarded with it. 

Robin9

@_Sam_  Even if you have a survey done the surveyor would take samples and send them off to the lab.

|Asbestos will be common - floor tiles, kitchen sink, gas warm air heater / flue ..............

DullGreyGuy

_Sam_ said:

Also I'm a bit worried that the self-sampling is marketed as "safe", but their instructions simply say wear a mask and gloves and use a stanley knife or a screwdriver to hack out a 3cm square chunk - but wouldn't this leave the room full of fibers as a result 

It all depends on the material. Much asbestos is locked in another matrix and so straight cuts aren't a material risk... sanding clearly is. 

_Sam_

danrv said:

It could be AIB. Article here:
https://www.keyasbestos.co.uk/case-studies/how-to-convert-a-berrylands-garage-with-an-asbestos-board-ceiling/
I’d be surprised though if all the ceilings in the property are boarded with it. 

I too think it's AIB... A bit hard to say about the rest of the house, there is some cladding on walls of the hallway that's glossy and decorative to resemble wood but who knows it may too be a type of AIB? Because of so much texturing everywhere it's hard not to suspect asbestos even in places otherwise looking normal and untextured...

_Sam_

Unfortunately they say AIB is among the worst asbestos products with as much as 50% of asbestos content. And that it can easily crumble/break, so I'm just not sure how one could safely cut a chunk off it to send for testing.

The cost to remove the entire ceiling professionally could be really high, I saw quotes of £3500 but that was in 2019. On the other hand it is the garage, the up and over door will need to come off to enable the removal of the boards, so it will be the room with large opening almost like working outdoors.

Could one not suit up suitably and carefully remove the boards in these conditions, vacuum everywhere and leave the opening for a few days to fully "air out" any remaining fibers?

Somehow it seems to me that carefully removing the entire boards would be much safer than getting up there and cutting a chunk out of one...

Section62

_Sam_ said:

Unfortunately they say AIB is among the worst asbestos products with as much as 50% of asbestos content. And that it can easily crumble/break, so I'm just not sure how one could safely cut a chunk off it to send for testing.

The cost to remove the entire ceiling professionally could be really high, I saw quotes of £3500 but that was in 2019. On the other hand it is the garage, the up and over door will need to come off to enable the removal of the boards, so it will be the room with large opening almost like working outdoors.

Could one not suit up suitably and carefully remove the boards in these conditions, vacuum everywhere and leave the opening for a few days to fully "air out" any remaining fibers?

Somehow it seems to me that carefully removing the entire boards would be much safer than getting up there and cutting a chunk out of one...

If it is AIB then the safe method of working will include sealing the garage up and the operatives entering and leaving via a double airlock.  You can't just take the door off and leave it open to the environment so asbestos fibres can blow around everywhere. (from your own POV you don't want your driveway/garden contaminated with this stuff)

One of the materials which is worse than AIB is loose asbestos fibre. Among other things this was used as insulation material.  Sometimes the integral garage was thermally insulated from the rooms above by placing loose fibre above AIB.  Although this is less likely in the case of a bungalow, one of the reasons why work should be carried out in a controlled environment is in case other (more harmful) asbestos containing material is exposed during the work. Imagine pulling one of the boards down and being showered with half a cubic metre of loose (possibly blue or brown) asbestos fibre....

One of the reasons why it might be thought removing whole boards is safer than cutting a chunk out of one is that neither is a safe method of working.  I wouldn't agree with the comment "straight cuts aren't a material risk" - it depends on the type of asbestos product, and what the cutting method is.  There are techniques which allow a sample to be removed relatively safely, but if AIB is suspected* I'd suggest you leave it to a professional to do.

*I did a reply to danrv's 7:34pm post but it seems to have gone or not posted properly.  I said that asbestos was often used as a component of ceiling [or soffit] material as it has good strength, resistance to damp, and could act as fireproofing.  AIB was often used for garage ceilings, particularly in integrated garages to act as fireproofing between the garage and habitable rooms.  With the additional information that yours is an integrated garage then I'd agree that AIB is strong possibility.

Depending on what you are doing with the garage, you may need to put in replacement fireproofing materials - talk to building control about what would be acceptable in your situation.

danrv

_Sam_ said:

Somehow it seems to me that carefully removing the entire boards would be much safer 

Not easy as the boards are pinned to the rafters. I'm taking the door from my warm air heater cupboard to a local council hazardous waste site. 
It has AIB pinned on the inside and the bag from the council is big enough to take it.
Best get confirmation of what the  boards are. 

plumb1_2

I wouldn’t saw a sample off, best to just knock a sample off with a hammer. But use ppe 
As it’s nailed on, you’ll not be able to remove a full sheet without it snapping.
If you live near me I’ll do it for you, as I’ve less than 30 yrs to live 😂