Is there any point in appealing this Parking Charge?

Sleepysophie

Hi, advice needed please,

I have appealed a parking charge direct to the issuer but it was rejected.
I am wondering if it is worth appealing to POPLA as if I do, I will need to pay the full charge and not the reduced one, if my appeal is unsuccessful. 

The reason I parked "illegally" is genuine. I had not noticed that the top floor of the multistorey car park was Permit only. I had gone all the way up as I couldn't find a space. 
I reverse parked into the spot (had I driven in, then I probably would have noticed the sign). When I got to the Outpatients area I commented on the parking and mentioned where I had parked, they then said "oh that's Permit only!" at which point I went straight back and moved the car. 
I also paid for the time I was there via the PaybyPhone option (as the rest of the car park was PaybyPhone). 
In total from entering the car park, trying to find a spot, parking, walking to register I was there, then climbing the stairs to move it and ultimately leaving, I was 23 minutes. 
However, other than not seeing the sign I don't really have an excuse? It was just a genuine mistake which I tried to rectify as soon as I was made aware.

Is that a grounds for appeal? I've looked at the appeal criteria on the POPLA website and I don't even know how I would categorise it? 

Should I just pay the fee? 

Coupon-mad

Obviously you don't PAY a private parking charge but you've not told us which firm issued it.

You also seem not to have read the entire POPLA appeal guidance post in NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST (sticky thread at the top of the forum)?  How do posters miss the resource in capital letters pinned at the top, that answers every query?  I'm perplexed when new posters haven't seen that but instead have read the POPLA website like it will help you!

No paying...come on it's a rogue industry.  Having said that, POPLA is not great - not seen to be fully independent - and sometimes you are best ignoring the debt demands entirely.

But it depends which PPC is bothering you?

Le_Kirk

If it was a hospital have you complained to PALS that their signs are missing/unclear/misleading and you want (would like) them to have it cancelled.  Nobody here will advise paying and a POPLA decision is not binding on the motorist.

B789

@Sleepysophie, welcome to the forum. First thing, ignore the discount being offered to pay these scammers. Do you really want to fund them and be a part of the problem? You will be able to defend this fully should you lose your POPLA appeal so stop worrying.

It looks like you were parking at a hospital. Your very first item on your to-do list is to activate Plan A which is to complain to the hospital PALS dept. You also copy in your complaint to the CEO of the NHS Trust.

Have a read of the POPLA appeals thread stickied at the top of this forum for clues on how to word your POPLA appeal. All they are interested in is whether the PCN was issued correctly. No amount of sobbing or pleading about avoiding orphans etc. will help you unless you have a "Protected disability", in which case you have to inform the PPC about this and advise them that you will be referring to the Equalities Act if they don't cancel.

You MUST read, re-read and read again the Newbies/FAQ thread to get an understanding of where you are in this process and the steps needed to outflank these scammers.

Sleepysophie

@Coupon-mad Just so you know, I did do a search before asking this question and this is what I found....432 pages of POPLA decisions and at the top, it said 
This thread is intended to be a compilation of all published POPLA decisions.
Please add any decisions you are aware of.
Please do not post requests for advice on this thread.
Please start a new thread if you are looking advice.
Sorry if there was somewhere else I should have been looking. 
 
Thanks for the replies @Le_Kirk & @B789 I don't think PALS will apply, if I had noticed the sign, then I would have understood it. I just didn't see it because I reversed into the spot and really wasn't expecting to see the floor was dedicated to Permit holders. 

I will appeal to POPLA. It was Parking Eye I received the original fine from and who I appealed to. 

Sleepysophie

Also because I was going to this hospital for the first time and for a biopsy, I was a bit stressed about the whole thing. Looking at signage was not something I was thinking about. 

Coupon-mad

I didn't suggest you search the forum at all, nor read the thread called POPLA Decisions.  There's no need to search a forum that already has a resource 'sticky' thread for new posters. 

Please go read the 3rd post of the sticky thread I advised.  It is at the top in capitals to be read first.

B789

Sleepysophie said:

I don't think PALS will apply, if I had noticed the sign, then I would have understood it. I just didn't see it because I reversed into the spot and really wasn't expecting to see the floor was dedicated to Permit holders. 

Why do you think you shouldn't complain to PALS? PALS are duty bound to assist in helping you get this cancelled and a copy to the NHS Trust CEO, reminding them that they are ultimately liable for the actions of their agents can often sharpen their minds as to the possible consequences if this goes south for them.

Also, why do you think you didn't notice the sign? If you "just didn't see it", don't you think that there may be a problem with the signage at the site? The signs should be "prominent" and "obvious", neither of which seems to be the case for you. The signs also have to be legible and obvious to the driver. If you reversed into your spot, then there should be other signs that jump out at you, which, from your description of events, is not the case.

Were the signs there "offering" anything or were they "forbidding"? If they were "forbidding", then you cannot have formed a contract as a "forbidding" sign does not "offer" anything therefore you cannot "accept" anything and so there is no "contract" and therefore no "breach".

Sleepysophie

Thanks @B789 I have sent an email to PALS now upon your advice, they said they will forward this to facilities and they MAY be able to help but can not promise anything. I understand what you mean, if I didn't see it then it wasn't obvious. I just think most people attending a hospital appointment alone with the prospect of having something invasive done (even if it is just an outpatient appointment) really generally won't be "on the ball" or at their best self. I truly was so worried that morning I frightened myself as I can't even remember driving there. 

fisherjim

If you went to the top floor which was restricted to permits only as you entered that area there should have been clear signs stating just that.

I always reverse into parking spaces it's far easier to get in and, out so would not see a sign on the wall either.

Why do you think it was your mistake? Do you realise that PPC's only make their money from people making "mistakes" they actually want you to, it's their bread and butter, the hospital don't pay them to manage the site they do that for free the mistake makers pay them.

If the signage does not conform they are breaking their ATA's COP which is supposed to protect you against making these "mistakes".

It would be very cynical of me to suggest that they actually hide signs, let them become unreadable, don't replace broken ones make them confusing, or even don't put them in the entrance to trap victims though!

Sleepysophie

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to you all - I got this good news today. It looks like the PALS team at the hospital have removed the charge. !! It might also be because I alerted them to the fact that their Twitter hanldle on their contact page took me to a hospital in California, of the same name? I'm sure they were appreciative.

@fisherjim, @B789 , @Coupon-mad , @Le_Kirk

The operator has contacted us and told us that they have withdrawn your appeal.

If you have already paid your parking charge, this is the reason your appeal will have been withdrawn. Unfortunately, you cannot pay your parking charge and appeal, which means that POPLA’s involvement in your appeal has ended. You will not be able to request a refund of the amount paid in order to resubmit your appeal to us.

If you have not paid your parking charge, the operator has reviewed your appeal and chosen to cancel the parking charge. As the operator has withdrawn your appeal, POPLA’s involvement has now ended and you do not need to take any further action.

Kind regards

POPLA Team