The nightmare of a house purchase with a septic tank

Statex2_2

Section62 said:

Statex2_2 said:

There is a third option  there is sewer connection on the property but it serves the neighbouring house which is a converted barn, which was owned by the previous owner of the one I am buying, converted and sold off. The drain pipe obviously runs up to my intending purchase and then goes at 90 degrees to the neighbouring property. The reason this is obvious is that there is a manhole/inspection chamber 2 metres in front of the intending purchse. When questioned about the septic tank the owners just states that he was going to connect to that manhole. I raised this issue with the agent and was fobbed off until I insisted they answere my question of "does he have the legal right to connect to the existing drain" the answere came back that he does not know. I asked who owned it he does not know, all he knows about it is that he has to grant them access for maintenence.

Is the "on the property" literal, as in the pipe and/or manhole is situated on land you would own if you purchased the property?

If so, you need to find out what agreement was made with the neighbouring property owner which allowed the pipe to be there.

People don't normally allow someone else to construct a foul drain across their land without getting something in return, and the most logical return in this case would have been for the developer to give this property owner the right to connect to the drain once completed.

The date it was constructed is also important.  If built before 1 July 2011 then the neighbours drain may now be a public sewer, by virtue of being located under land belonging to others.  You'd need to get that confirmed by the sewerage undertaker if it is a possibility.

If he has to grant them access for maintenance then there should be something in this property's deeds, and also in the neighbouring property's deeds.  This is something your solicitor ought to be looking at and advising on....

The property (the house) has changed owners at least 3 times since the next door barn was converted in 2005. The owner of the house originally owned the barn and the land it stood on. it was a barn and stables in 2005 and obviously no sewer connection. Converted to a dwelling and sold off. i have checked the local planning department but there are no plans only the permission on the planning  site.

The sewer pipework I believe runs from the road and up the drive of my intending purchase to a manhole/inspection cover 3 metres in front of the house I am purchasing. I assume it then runs at 90 degrees or other angle to the barn as you always have an access chamber when a pipe runs at an angle from the main pipe. 

Interesting about the July 2011 public sewer rules. I know my sewer comes under those rules because we share with our neighbour but did not realise that it applied to a rural situation one pipe and house connected.0

When I viewed the property the owner just said he intended to connect to the manhole but as it only serves the next door property I did not consider he had the right to do so. I pressed the agent for answeres and was fobbed off as usual until I threatened to withdraw from the sale unless I was given answeres. I asked if he had the right to connect to it and was told he does not know. I asked who owned it and he does not know. I asked if there was an easement relating to the sewer and again the same answere all he knows is that he has to allow access to it.

I downloaded the title documents from HM Land registry but there is nothing about the sewer.

I find it strange that the original owner (who was a solicitor in 2005) ran the pipe on his  and not on land transferred with the barn. Unless he intended to connect to it and did not get round to it.

ProDave

You need to ask your water company for the cost of connection.  If that has been adopted as a public sewer then the cost will not be much to connect to that manhole.

Statex2_2

dimbo61 said:

So the septic tank and drainage system  are not up to date.
I would also guess the electrics are not up to date ?
Heating system  ? Old and out dated ?
Log burner or open fire ?
Oil fired central heating or Gas ?
Old houses need more maintenance 

New roof, New electrics ,complete rewire, new log burner, old oil boiler but working. but 5 acres of land attached.

Sarahspangles

I’d be wondering why someone who bought in 2020 is moving this on so quickly!  Have they run out of money, and are you on the same course if you buy?  New roof and wiring is easy by comparison to heating and drainage.  Is the log burner useable with the new regs?

Statex2_2

The present oner is in financial difficulties. Due to the increase in interest rates, aparently he sold his business and purchased several properties to rent out, when the rates were low. One tenant owes several thousand pounds and the others are costing him more in interest than he is receiving. The house was in a poor state of repair when he purchased it, leaking roof poor electrics, which he has fixed. Log burner complies with new regs.

What concerns me is that the previous owner was only there for 3 years but the owner previous to that owned it for many years. 

As you mention I do not want to go down the same route and end up broke because of this house and am trying to find out what everything is going to cost before I purchase it, if I eventually do buy it. The present owner is becoming impatient and the agent keeps phoning me. Probaiy because every interest rate increase pushes him further into debt.

Statex2_2

ProDave said:

You need to ask your water company for the cost of connection.  If that has been adopted as a public sewer then the cost will not be much to connect to that manhole.

ProDave said:

You need to ask your water company for the cost of connection.  If that has been adopted as a public sewer then the cost will not be much to connect to that manhole.

Just phoned Anglian Water drainage department and they said they do not know if the present drain has been adopted by them or not. I explained the layout and they still could not tell me. They just said go to a contractor who will be able to find out and I can do an asset search but that will only give the main sewer position. They said the main sewer is further up the road therefore a long pipe run and substantial costs involved. I cant understand how a private contractor can find out anything if they do not know.

Section62

Statex2_2 said:

The sewer pipework I believe runs from the road and up the drive of my intending purchase to a manhole/inspection cover 3 metres in front of the house I am purchasing. I assume it then runs at 90 degrees or other angle to the barn as you always have an access chamber when a pipe runs at an angle from the main pipe.

Not 'always'.  It is good practice to have some form of access, but it is legitimate to make a branch connection without having an access chamber.

Statex2_2 said:

Interesting about the July 2011 public sewer rules. I know my sewer comes under those rules because we share with our neighbour but did not realise that it applied to a rural situation one pipe and house connected.0

The relevant rule in this case is where the pipe crosses from the first property onto the second. If it discharges to a public sewer then it should be public sewer from that boundary point, if it was constructed prior to the relevant date.

Statex2_2 said:

I find it strange that the original owner (who was a solicitor in 2005) ran the pipe on his  and not on land transferred with the barn. Unless he intended to connect to it and did not get round to it.

If the original owner was a solicitor then I would expect there to be a good reason for doing what they did.

My guess is they intended to connect their property to this new pipe which is why it was on their land, and heads for this property rather than the new one.  In which case the barn may only have permission for the pipe and connection they need, with the pipe under the drive (initially) remaining the responsibility of the original house owner.

But as per my previous post, these are questions/queries your solicitor should be investigating.  If you don't have a solicitor, or your solicitor isn't doing the job properly, then you need to have a re-think.  Rural properties with things like access rights and/or shared drains are more complicated to deal with than the typical suburban home, a purchase like this needs advice from a solicitor who is used to dealing with this kind of situation and is doing a thorough job.

Section62

Statex2_2 said:

Just phoned Anglian Water drainage department and they said they do not know if the present drain has been adopted by them or not. I explained the layout and they still could not tell me. They just said go to a contractor who will be able to find out and I can do an asset search but that will only give the main sewer position. They said the main sewer is further up the road therefore a long pipe run and substantial costs involved. I cant understand how a private contractor can find out anything if they do not know.

What they probably mean is to get a drainage survey carried out - which is a good idea in any event when buying a property with unknown/unusual drainage arrangements.

The survey company will give you a report - which if it shows this pipe crossing onto your land from the neighbours - would be evidence that the pipe under the drive is (probably) a public sewer.

Sarahspangles

Probably clutching at straws but when you say you’ve checked what records Planning have, was this just their online digital records or have you asked if they have paper files in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard their lovely temperature controlled archives.

And for completeness when you said ‘Planning’ did this include Building Control?

CalJo99

Surely it's a bad sign that the owner and the agent are getting impatient with you?!!! Landsakes, it's YOU who should be getting impatient with THEM!  The owner should have sorted all this before putting it on the market - at least to the extent of having accurate and comprehensive answers.

The owner, it seems, just wants shot of it, and wants to dump it on you.

I'd run now, and fast, and far away.

There are other houses with land to buy.