Am I responsible for my late Father's credit card debts?

pillsbury

My father recently died, leaving behind credit cards debts. As next of kin the card companies have been contacting me to keep them informed on the status of his estate.

There was no will and no money left and even a restriction on his share of the house from a previous bancrupcy, there will be no money to pay off these cards.

My question is, should these debts die with the person, even with no card insurance? Some peole have said that this should be the case.

Louise1521

Sorry to hear of your loss.

My Mum died at Christmas leaving lots of debt that we didn't know about. I wrote to the companies involved explaining that she hadn't left a will and that there wasn't any assets left by her to pay the debts. They were written off in the end. My Mum didn't own her own house though.

jimmyjim_uk

I'm not to sure myself, try this thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=47423&highlight=dies theres some info in there

nrsql

Sorry to hear that - lost my second parent a few months ago. Still a shock even if it's expected.

Should be up to the executor to deal with this. He should be contacting the credit card companies. Pass along the executors details to the card companies and they should stop calling you (unless that's you)
They will have a claim on the estate but I doubt if they can go further than that.
They just want to make sure they don't get left out of the queue and get the accounts so they can close the case.

This is just a guess - you could try asking the card companies when they call you or call them - they go through this all the time, doesn't mean the person you talk to knows anything about it but it's free to talk.

lisyloo

There was no will and no money left and even a restriction on his share of the house from a previous bancrupcy, there will be no money to pay off these cards.

IF there is no will then intestacy laws apply (the statutory fall back).

You say there is no money left, but he clearly has some assets as he has a share of a house.
Who does he share with?

Does he have any other assets? Pension funds? Cars? House contents? Jewelry etc?

Who gets the share of the house?

If there is genuinely no money then nobody else has to pay the debt, however if there are assets somewhere e.g. a car, then you need to be careful, because technically these should be sold to cover any debts.

The question is, does he really have nothing at all?

pillsbury

Dear All,

thanks for the helpful replies, sorry to hear so many people are having to deal with the same dilema.

In answer to the question of "does he really have nothing"? Well no, he has a half share in a property, the other half belonging to his partner (never married) of 20 years. We want to try and save the house from being sold as she will not be in a finacial position to get a morgage on another property. This is another on going saga with the trustee for the bancrupcy who's charges are tied up in the house.

I suppose from what everyone has said, if the house had to be sold the credit card companies would want their share, but otherwise they might write them off.

So the money either comes from the estate or hopefully they are written off. I certainly don't have the money personally to pay them off.

This is my first posting on this site and am so impressed with the response and the site - I've been spreading the money saving word!

Thanks again.

lisyloo

I suppose from what everyone has said, if the house had to be sold the credit card companies would want their share, but otherwise they might write them off.

It depends.
I think one important factor is how they shared the house according to the title deeds.
There are two ways to share a house. One in "tennants in common" and one is "joint tennants".
Now I can't remember which way round it goes but one way means it passes to the other OUTSIDE of the estate.

It is not really relevant whether the house has to be sold.
What is relevant is whether the remaining share (after the bankruptcy) passed OUTSIDE of the estate to the partner or whether it forms part of his estate.
If he has an estate then the credit card companies are entitled to their share.
If it passes automatically to the partner then they are not entitled to take anything.

I certainly don't have the money personally to pay them off.

I do not believe that you are liable (and no-one else is).
The only entity that is liable is the deceaseds estate (if there is anything in it).

You (and his partner) should be wary of the credit card companies.
Sometimes they are heavy handed with these sort of things because they want to scare people into paying up when they are not in fact liable.
NO-ONE is liable for anyone elses debts.
If you get scary letters from the credit card company then check them out with the CAB or a solicitor before paying.

Do you by any chance have free legal advice on your house insurance (or your partners)
Might be very useful at this time, so it might be worth checking out your house insurance policies.

Bossyboots

I can reassure you that the debts do not become your liability but the issue of the house is a bit complicated. If there is any money at all available from the estate, it has to go to pay the debts. The credit card companies may take an option to put a charge on the house until the partner dies or, if it is not a large sum, just write if off. They are entitled to be told of the prpoperty though.

jen_jen_2

"We want to try and save the house from being sold as she will not be in a finacial position to get a morgage on another property. This is another on going saga with the trustee for the bancrupcy who's charges are tied up in the house."

a bit of a diversion but this may help the bankruptcy issue. The value of the asset is not necessarily half of the value of the house, its value is the price somebody will pay for half a house (not a lot) the trustee cannot make the partner sell it (as long as she has some legal ownership which you suggest she has) is it realistic for her to make a token offer £100 for example or a more depending on the equity. you or other relevant person could also offer to buy your fathers half.
remember the trustee is trying to get the most for creditors and so the cost of what it costs him to put the house on the market, pay estate agents fees, solicitors fees all have to come out of your fathers half and the trustee may accept a smaller offer just to get it dealt with and secure more for the trustees.

another option may be for the trustee to put a charge on the property, in effect they will get the money when the partner sells or dies. The trustee is happy because the debt is secured on property and very unlikely to force a sale because of half value arguement and partner happy because they get to remain living there.

just some options for you to have a think about - hope it helps

lisyloo

They are entitled to be told of the prpoperty though.

Why are they entitled to be told.
If it is held is such a way that it passed automatically to the partner outside of the estate then I don't think they have any claim.

I think it might be "joint tennats" rather than "tennant in common" but often get this the wrong way round.

If it becomes the partners property automatically on his death then it has nothing whatsoever to do with the credit card companies (assuming it's not a joint credit card).

pillsbury

Dear Jen Jen,

Interesting what you have said about half the value of a house, i'm not sure I understand enough but it's perhaps a thread we could discuss with a solicitor.

My father and his partner were 'tenants in common' I believe that my fathers share automaticlally passes to myself, my brother and sister as next of kin. As far as we are concerned the house is the partners and she and her parents are keeping up the morgage between themselves.

Just to throw another spanner in the works the trustee has not managed to raise any of the creditors for the past debt, therefore the debts are written off, however the trustee have now issued a bill for their work of approx. £7000.00 I'm am currently writting to the Insolvency practitioners association to have this verified or at least reduced. During a visit to the trustee in Jan to inform them of our fathers death we were told the whole process of contacting the creditors would be done by March. We had to contact them in May to find out if anyone had come forward for the money, as far as i'm concerned some of that £7000 is for two months of work that we didn't know about!